Hi!
I'm the main author of WebWork. While it is somewhat apparent that Jon
hasn't really looked at WebWork, I will try to answer as best as I can.
My recommendation is really for you to look a little more at WebWork
before making any judgment about it, both on its own and compared with
other framworks.
Jon Stevens wrote:
> > It might be useful to review WebWork [based on a JSP TagLib]as part of
> > developing the Pull Model for Turbine
> >
> > http://sourceforge.net/docman/display_doc.php?docid=2243&group_id=14797
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Neville
>
> I find it extremely humorous that they haven't given a comparison with
> Turbine.
Why is that funny?
Anyway, I have made a comparison with Turbine. Just haven't copied it
into the docs yet:
http://www.geocrawler.com/archives/3/7709/2000/12/0/4763903/
> This is yet another case of re-inventing the wheel without even bothering to
> study the other tools that are out there.
I have looked quite a lot at existing frameworks, to find out their
respective pro's and con's, first to determine if I needed Yet Another
Framework, and once I decided "yes, I need Yet Another Framework", how
to get the best from all.
WebWork comes with quite a few examples. Some of them are ported from
other frameworks, so that it is easy to compare WebWork with others.
IMHO all of the WebWork versions are better than their original
counterparts. This alone indicates that it's not simply a case of
"reinventing the wheel" (which I'm not a fan of either).
> I also would argue that competing
> with Struts is stupid as well.
Because..?
> Anyone who has worked in the web app framework area long enough knows that
> they all grow to the point where it is to large for *someone* to be able to
> understand it.
Oh really. Universal truth of the day, eh?
WebWork has been specifically designed so that there is a minimal
initial learning curve, and you can then learn the additional features
as they become needed.
Compare this with Turbine where there's quite a bit of API's you need to
understand before you can even begin to do things. Not to mention some
of the needed API's are not very well documented, such as ECS.
> Using that reason as an excuse for not using Struts is kind
> silly IMHO. Please document a better reason.
Please read the entire sentence in the comparison.
> Also, looking at the source code, this framework is more than just another
> taglibs framework and IMHO has real relation to what Turbine is doing.
Yes, WebWork is two things:
1) A Model-2 pull HMVC servlet/action API for controller JavaBeans
2) A taglib for JSP views that want to extract the results from the
JavaBeans
The two can be used separately or together. Our examples use both, but
it would be ok to use (for example) WebMacro or similar as the view
technique instead. Or another taglib.
> I'm a bit disappointed that there is *yet another faction of development* in
> this area going on. Why can't we just work together to produce cool
> software? Having 3 more people off doing their own thing solving the same
> exact problems seems a bit silly.
Almost: we're solving the exact same problems in quite a different way.
If I were to say "our way of solving the problem is superior to how
Turbine does it, so please stop working on that and come help us
instead" would you do that? Probably not.
And since we are convinced that we do in fact have a superior way of
solving the problem, why would we want to work on Turbine instead? That
doesn't make any sense.
The best way to "convince you" is to make WebWork good, and provide good
examples of how to use it in real applications. If you then see why
WebWork is superior you are welcome to come help with it. If you don't
see why WebWork is superior then fine, keep working on Turbine. That's
your choice.
> p.s. It is LGPL. While better than the GPL, it is still gaga and I wouldn't
> touch it.
Yes of course, I see your point now. How foolish of us. *shrug*
I didn't expect you to give a fair judgment of WebWork, but you haven't
really tried, so...
/Rickard
--
Rickard Öberg
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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