Am 10.07.2012 19:38, schrieb Mike Orr:
Kevin's original vision for TG was to select best-of-breed components and integrate them into a framework. That was an excellent idea and inspired me personally, but it failed in the sense that all his original decisions became obsolete: Kid, SQLObject, Prototype and Scriptaculous, non-WSGI base.
Yes, that was the crucial problem. Actually instead of Prototype and Scriptaculous, TG1 used Mochikit, which was chosen for good reasons by Kevin at at that time because it was a small, sweet and pythonic library, but later it became obsolete as well :( Kid was not a big deal because Genshi was pretty similar. SQLObject was a mich bigger problem. And "non-WSGI" actually meant the CherryPy server which did not become obsolete, but was replaced with Pylons anyway in TG2 (the TG1 branch is still based on CherryPy). And there were even more components that were replaced or were incompatible between TG1 and TG2 (authentication and authorization, widgets etc.)
Both TG1 and TG2 were and still are great frameworks, but that discontinuity was in fact kind of "traumatic" as you call it. Users had problems because it was difficult to upgrade their old apps, newbies became paralyzed because they did not know which version to choose, and documentation was always lagging behind.
The biggest worry of users is to go through a compatibility trauma again.
Exactly, TG2 is just in the phase of recovering from that trauma.
Since Pylons is "lightly maintained" at this point, it would behoove TG developers to step up to maintain it and perhaps plan a Pylons 2.0.
This has been solved already. TG2 is slowly separating from the old Pylons framework. Parts have been incorporarted into TG itself, parts are replaced with (even faster) dispatch code (crank). TG 2.3 will already be completely independant of Pylons.
I have not heard anything about Orion besides rumors that it exists. Is it active?
No. It was an idea only, but it never materialized. Instead, TG2 developed slowly in a more natural way.
I have long believed strongly in modularity, reusablilty, and interoperability. That's what led me to TurboGears, Pylons, and Pyramid.
Me too. And even if TG2 will not build upon the Pyramid core any time soon, TG2 and Pyramid share a lot of components already.
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