ant elder wrote:
Here are some specific ideas to kick around:
1) how about calling business samples 'demos' and
technology samples just
'samples'
2) restructure the current samples folder to be
something like:
samples
- demos
- bigbank
- petstore
- ...
- das
- ...
- sdo
- ...
- sca
- bindings
- jsonrpc
- ws
- ...
- componentTypes
- java
- javascript
- ...
3) There should be a consistent set of samples
within bindings,
componentTypes etc so its easy to copy things to
create new samples and add
new function
4) samples are like functional tests so we should
add a sample for every bit
of existing and new function
5) Fix the testing/tomcat stuff so all the samples
doing functional testing
get run as part of a regular build
Many of the samples require tomcat and despite the the
mock functional testing I
still believe we'll see these samples/demos break. So
by this proposal are we
going to remove the end user aspect that these tests
did? Testing as close to a
user environment as possible and still remain
automated? If the answer is to
remove then will we be doing this manually?
In more detail:
Right now we have a samples folder which has things
like the bigbank,
helloworld, javascript and various other stuff in
it. The bigbank sample
shows a complete SCA application that does something
useful and real world
like, the helloworld samples on the other hand are
very simplistic and
really just help a developer getting started with
SCA. I think Bigbank fits
into what you describe as business samples and the
helloworld samples are
technology samples, but to make this clearer how
about calling business
samples 'demos' and technology samples just
'samples'?
Samples to me could be a lot like functional tests,
for every bit of new
function we add we should add a sample showing how
to use it. Samples would
show just one bit of function so its obvious whats
required without getting
confused by unrelated code and xml. I've started
trying to use this approach
for the JavaScript samples:
http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/tuscany/java/samples/
JavaScript/
If we go that way it has to be really easy to create
a new sample, the
helloworld samples aren't so easy to copy but after
a few different attempts
with the JavaScript ones its now relatively easy to
just copy an existing
JavaScript sample to a new project and do a global
edit to change the sample
number.
Just so I understand can you please elaborate on what
was changed that made the
Javascript examples so much easier to copy and reuses
over the helloworld.. Thanks.
The most difficult part is updating the readme.htm
file with all the
ascii art directory structure pictures etc, I think
its probably better to
use plain txt readme files with simple content for
samples and only have
fancy html readme's for the demos (and gif's instead
of ascii art?).
Creating gifs and maintaining them seems more
difficult the ascii art and there
is no mandate that any particular samples have that.
I didn't see this as an issue. The ideas was to get
the use familiar with
samples layout. I thought this was good for some of
the first samples that
show where your sca files are located etc. There is
no requirement that every
"sample" do that.
Another
minor problem with the JavaScript ones is the name
is javascript-sampleX but
it may be better to have sample-javascriptX so then
all samples would get
grouped together in your IDE.
I think java helloworld are grouped.
Another aspect is it should be easy and obvious what
samples are required
when creating something new like a new
componentType. Most componentTypes
are going to require similar samples like a
helloworld component, injecting
properties and references, initialization and
scoping etc. If we get a good
set of these for the Java componentType then when
creating a new
componentType you can just copy all the Java ones
and update as required and
its obvious what needs to get done.
That's one of the reasons helloworld samples are there
for.
This probably all also applies for
bindings and maybe theres a set of samples required
for Tuscany core
function as well (showing module fragments,
subsystmes etc?). This way we'd
also end up with a consistent set of samples, so if
you've learnt how to use
one componentType then picking up a new one the
samples would be familiar.
This would also all work across the different
language impls so Java, C++,
and PHP SCA impls could all have a similar set of
samples.
Right now some of the binding functional testing is
done with existing
samples but these don't actually get run as part of
the main build so they
do get broken. If the functional testing is going to
be done in samples then
we need to sort out the testing/tomcat stuff so its
easy to do and so the
samples get properly run as part of the regular
build process.
Not sure where to go here. I see both sides people
don't want to run that with
every build. Ideally it would all run in a nightly
build. I haven't had much
luck with getting that in place. The apache
infrastructure "GUMP' doesn't seem
to support maven 2.0 builds.
I think samples should expand on each other, for
example they'd be a basic
helloworld componentType sample, then a WS
entryPoint sample exposes
helloworld as a WS, then a WS-Security sample
secures the WS entryPoint
sample.
Once again I think I see that in helloword. And from
the the main readme
if you follow down you'll basically get that there is
a plain J2see. There are
some axis samples that were there to show integration
with a plain axis
client/service at one time that was considered
important. There is a sample
using helloworld as in a web application ... we once
deemed that as important to
show too. There is a helloworld showing using an
entrypoint and an externalservice.
I think Demo's on the other hand should be complete
and self
contained applications. There could be tutorials
that show how each demo was
developed.
Basically I agree. Bigbank does have a tutorial it's
under documentation
"SCA: "Building your first application" And yes the
main readme and a readme in
the the directory of bigbank should point or this
tutorial Or should it be
actually be relocated to the demo?
Also it may be slightly out of date since it was first
written some things in
the technology has changed.
For the demos, we already have bigbank so we might
as well keep it but it
needs to be made more obvious what it does and how
to use it. Right now I
can't find any readme's or doc describing it, there
used to be a pdf about
it, where's that gone (and from what I remember that
was like a 40 page doc
which is way more than most people will have time to
read)?
Yes it is long. But if you want the details ?
Someone
mentioned petstore and I think that could be a
worthwhile demo as well - its
so well known so people can grok whats going on
without needing to read a 40
page document. I think I heard that the PHP SCA impl
have their own demo app
which isn't bigbank, it may be worth looking at what
they have and also
adding it as a demo for the Java impl.
Petstore, PHP Flashy demos etc Will some people may
become confused with all
the samples and demos?
Assuming all the resources to do all this will people
need a 40 page document
for a roadmap of the demos and samples?
I think the demo documentation needs
to make clearer why SCA is a good thing, its not
real obvious right now from
the existing doc why this is better than using
something like J2EE or just
wiring up a bunch of POJOs with Spring.
OK lets find out what that is and either incorporate
into bigbank or get rid of
bigbank for something that does this better.
It would be good to have some more cool technology
demo's, but right now the
only function Tuscany supports is fairly mainstream.
I think the E4X support
in JavaScript could make some interesting WS
mediation samples, but the
function isn't quite there yet. The json-rpc/ajax
stuff could be really cool
but its also not ready yet. Maybe as this first
milestone release is
targeting getting new contributors rather than
business users then just
sorting out the functional samples and cleaning up
the bigbank demo would be
enough.
...ant
Personally I'm not for cool and flashy here in OS.
Let give reason for why this
technology is needed and how to use it. Let's not
drape flash(cool) over it for
the sake of "FLASH" or that we can't really show the
latter.
On 4/12/06, haleh mahbod < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi,
What are the categories of samples that we need to
consider for Tuscany?
I see two potential categories.
1) Business samples - Focused on showing how
Tuscany solves certain
business
problems.
2) Technology samples - Focused on showing
developers how to use
Tuscanyfeatures such as Transaction.
Does this look right?
If yes, what are some good samples that we can
consider for each category?
What should our approach to Samples be? Start with
one sample and expand
it
to show additional functionality; or
create distinct samples?
Haleh
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