Hi,
The following is a log from today's IRC chat.
Thanks,
Raymond
(8:34:25 AM) cr22rc: I guess we're going into IRC chat time
(8:34:43 AM) jboynes: when we release we won't have snapshot references
(8:34:59 AM) jboynes: but meeraj is also looking at support for a repo in
the war
(8:35:07 AM) jboynes: so that all deps can be included
(8:36:28 AM) cr22rc: well it sounds like I have two options.... always
clean out my local repo (if that does fix it) and run bb or just say it's
broken till that option comes available.
(8:37:09 AM) Venkat [EMAIL PROTECTED] entered the room.
(8:37:20 AM) jboynes: sigh
(8:37:49 AM) jboynes: just trying to help
(8:37:51 AM) cr22rc: at least frow what i know thats the opetions
(8:37:55 AM) cr22rc: yes
(8:39:02 AM) jboynes: FWIW it wasn't working before
(8:39:21 AM) cr22rc: could run it
(8:39:28 AM) jboynes: there was a problem in the scdl with the elements
being in the wrong namespace
(8:39:44 AM) jboynes: and we didn't report any kind of problem if we could
not resolve things
(8:40:00 AM) jboynes: sorry that fixing those is causing so much trauma
(8:40:07 AM) cr22rc: are these seperate issues ?
(8:40:24 AM) cr22rc: maybe we should get on with the regular irc ?
(8:40:33 AM) cr22rc: for the sake of the others
(8:41:12 AM) jboynes: ok
(8:43:04 AM) lresende [n=
[EMAIL PROTECTED] entered the room.
(8:44:01 AM) rfen1: do we have any topics for today's IRC?
(8:44:53 AM) Venkat: yes.. can we please take stock of where we are with
the release items
(8:45:14 AM) kgoodson: i've been relooking at the parent pom stuff in
order to try to pose specific questions
(8:46:21 AM) halehM: should we go through samples and see what is running
and what is not?
(8:46:47 AM) Venkat: also :)
(8:47:16 AM) rfen1: samples for SCA Java?
(8:47:18 AM) simonnash [EMAIL PROTECTED] entered the room.
(8:47:28 AM) halehM: we can start there
(8:47:55 AM) jmarino [EMAIL PROTECTED]
entered the room.
(8:48:47 AM) rfen1: AFIW, the samples in the main build are working
(8:49:39 AM) cr22rc: including all the webservices ones ?
(8:50:07 AM) rfen1: there is also a discussion on the mailing list on how
can we verify the samples in real environment
(8:50:30 AM) rfen1: cr22rc, not including the interop cases
(8:50:55 AM) cr22rc: k
(8:51:33 AM) Venkat: rfen1, has those samples been tested out of the
build... say setting up the env and running them..?
(8:52:24 AM) rfen1: We're in the process of doing that
(8:52:46 AM) cr22rc: I don't see how helloworldws could not be caught up
with the same issue bb is seeing
(8:53:03 AM) rfen1: at least for me, I'm trying to build the ws samples
using war plugin and run with tomcat
(8:53:58 AM) Venkat: there is also Jojo who is facing some problem with
that Calculator combo sample... where the WS thing comes
(8:54:05 AM) cr22rc: rfeng maybe we should skip this now and compare notes
later -- spare others that may have more general interests?
(8:54:17 AM) rfen1: ok
(8:56:19 AM) cr22rc: there was the issue on the vote for parent and build
pom... maybe that's more general ?
(8:56:27 AM) rfen1: venkat, you're proposing that we go through the status
of release items?
(8:58:13 AM) Venkat: yes... for example with those on the wiki ... or if
there is any other better list
(8:58:28 AM) Venkat: just to let us know where we must team up a bit to
pull things forward...
(8:59:11 AM) rfen1: yes, maybe it's simpler to speak out what areas need
help for making the release
(8:59:59 AM) rfen1: let's start with me
(9:00:59 AM) halehM: OK rfen1?
(9:01:02 AM) lresende: one of the things i noticed, is that someone new to
sca that want's to create a simple service and consume it using SCA... will
have little hard time.. i found very little doco available and mostly where
the spec... but didn't cover things like how to run a standalone app for
example
(9:01:27 AM) lresende: we might want to add some more doco and contents to
the sca part of the tuscanywebsite
(9:01:33 AM) cr22rc: this is the wiki list
http://wiki.apache.org/ws/Tuscany/TuscanyJava/M2Tasks#preview
(9:01:48 AM) rfen1: 1) I started to a full-cycle test the distribution for
the ws samples with the help from jboynes and we made some progress last
Friday and I'll continue
(9:01:57 AM) Venkat: yes
(9:02:12 AM) rfen1: 2) I also worked with Ignacio on the async ws feature
(9:03:02 AM) Venkat: (yes was for cr22rc)
(9:03:06 AM) rfen1: we got a path for client side as well as one for
server side working, but there's a remaining issue on how the client side
receives the response
(9:04:15 AM) rfen1: I can help with other things if you speak out :-)
(9:04:35 AM) Venkat: so can I say that ...
(9:04:46 AM) kgoodson is now known as kgoodson_away
(9:04:50 AM) Venkat: 1) Async work (categorized under kernel) is ongoing
(9:05:21 AM) rfen1: maybe we should be clear: async inter-component and
async ws
(9:05:22 AM) Venkat: 2) Web distribution (all that it is to do with the
plugin war etc.) is underway
(9:05:42 AM) Venkat: 3) There is WS Samples that is also in progress...
(9:06:11 AM) Venkat: ?
(9:06:59 AM) rfen1: cr22rc, can you give us a brief update on BB?
(9:07:52 AM) Venkat: rfeng, shall we take that when we are talking about
samples ?
(9:08:26 AM) Venkat: lets go by categories to get a picture of what
remains to be done in each...
(9:08:35 AM) Venkat: for example... lets take the distros..
(9:09:11 AM) rfen1: sure
(9:09:16 AM) Venkat: There were some more updates to the standalone...
last week... related to classloaders... where are we with that...
(9:09:52 AM) rfen1: I think jboynes have worked on that
(9:10:08 AM) jboynes: I posted a message on how it was working
(9:10:18 AM) kgoodson_away is now known as kgoodson
(9:10:45 AM) jboynes: I've not changed anything (e.g. to add multi-parent)
(9:11:13 AM) halehM: so is distros ready to go into the release and if not
what is remaining?
(9:11:26 AM) Venkat: ok... when I tried the rmi samples the last time I
was required to put that extension dependencies in the 'boot'... has that
changed
(9:11:52 AM) jboynes: i don't know what you did
(9:12:04 AM) jboynes: but as nothing has changed, probably not
(9:12:57 AM) simonnash: I tested Jeremy's fix for TUSCANY-797 (jars
missing in standalone environment) and it is working for me. I was not sure
how to mark TUSCANY-797 as closed.
(9:13:50 AM) jboynes: you should be able to "resolve" if if not close it
(9:13:58 AM) jboynes: if not please just add a comment
(9:14:21 AM) Venkat: yes.. that was fixed and it was after that I did the
rmi samples...
(9:14:24 AM) meerajk: Venkat: shouldn't the extension dependencies be
declared in the SCDL using the dependency element?
(9:14:25 AM) simonnash: you had already marked it is resolved. ok I will
add a comment. presumably someone esle will close it if I cannot
(9:14:38 AM) jboynes: I will
(9:14:53 AM) Venkat: yes.. I did that... but did not work...
(9:14:54 AM) simonnash: thanks
(9:15:04 AM) meerajk: when was this?
(9:15:09 AM) Venkat: infact you'll still find that in the scdl
(9:15:17 AM) Venkat: last week
(9:15:17 AM) jboynes: Venkat: what do you mean by "did not work"?
(9:16:01 AM) Venkat: despite adding that dependency element (I copied it
right out of axis and changed)... I had a classdef not found for a
dependency
(9:16:11 AM) Venkat: when I put that into boot it worked
(9:16:18 AM) meerajk: a fix went in on saturday
(9:16:25 AM) jboynes: for axis
(9:16:35 AM) jboynes: the scdl in axis you copied was wrong
(9:16:43 AM) meerajk: for transitive resolution
(9:16:47 AM) jboynes: you may need to update your version
(9:17:57 AM) rfen1: (a side note: sometimes there are notes on the mailing
list capturing useful information such as how things should work. should we
keep such tips on wiki as they may get lost in tons of postings on the
mailing list?)
(9:18:29 AM) Venkat: yes... I have been stealing somethings here and there
and doing that...
(9:19:40 AM) rfen1: thanks, I also need to do that as well. it could form
a good collection of raw materials for documents
(9:19:51 AM) meerajk: Venkat:
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/TUSCANY-727
(9:21:18 AM) jboynes: I think this meets lresende's comment about getting
documentation together
(9:21:56 AM) jboynes: do we have a volunteer to take that on?
(9:22:40 AM) Venkat: I have put in a high level table of cotents of sort
at http://wiki.apache.org/ws/Tuscany/TuscanyJava/SCA_Java
(9:23:01 AM) Venkat: infact I harvested some info on DataMediation from
the past and have put it there...
(9:23:16 AM) Venkat: include some info from you jboynes in some mail about
data mediation
(9:23:24 AM) lresende: i'll contribute with :
http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/TUSCANY-805
(9:23:49 AM) lmsurprenant: I would also like to help with documentation
(9:24:07 AM) jboynes: thanks
(9:24:12 AM) Venkat: meeraj: I will relook the dependency stuff and take
your help to understand that.. will look at the JIRA as well...
(9:24:14 AM) rfen1: venkat, seems to be a good skeleton
(9:24:22 AM) meerajk: np
(9:24:39 AM) jboynes: I think we need a committer to pull it together and
get it to the website - Venkat can you take that on?
(9:24:52 AM) Venkat: yes sure
(9:24:55 AM) jboynes: thanks
(9:25:10 AM) simonnash: i would like to help with input to the docs...
anything that I discover while building and running the samples
(9:25:38 AM) rfen1: I also suggest that as we test one feature, we can try
to document how to do it.
(9:25:51 AM) lresende: btw, is the plan to concentrate the doco on the
wiki ? i'd like to have at least some level of information available from
the website as well
(9:26:01 AM) simonnash: should we all do this as input to Venkat's
skeleton?
(9:26:15 AM) Venkat: lresende... we will put together on the wiki...
(9:26:39 AM) Venkat: thats the best place we can do this in
collaboration.. then we or now I should say 'I' will consolidate it to the
website
(9:26:51 AM) jboynes: :)
(9:26:53 AM) jboynes: thanks
(9:27:32 AM) Venkat: lresende your point on having info on the website is
well taken it makes lots of sense... the wiki is second step
(9:27:41 AM) Venkat: to visitors
(9:27:49 AM) lresende: sure... +1
(9:28:19 AM) Venkat: ok... getting back.. so we shall close 'standalone'
as ready for release...
(9:28:44 AM) Venkat: for samples on standalone... the rmi ones are
there... what else
(9:29:04 AM) jboynes: i don't think we can yet
(9:29:04 AM) Venkat: the calculator I know is there..
(9:29:11 AM) jboynes: we still need all the doco etc. done
(9:29:33 AM) jboynes: we also need a story on how people add extensions as
they are not in the distro atm
(9:29:56 AM) cr22rc: Sorry if I'm behind... but are we planning to have
docs in the distribution ...or only on the website ?
(9:30:04 AM) kgoodson is now known as kgoodson_away
(9:30:33 AM) jboynes: dunno - but we still need them done :)
(9:30:48 AM) cr22rc: sure :-) btw I'll help with what I can
(9:31:04 AM) Venkat: ideally could be with distro. as it would be
detailed.. we can point to doc in the distro in the website..
(9:32:18 AM) Venkat: jboynes when you say "how people add extensions" you
mean for example if I needed the rmi extension where would that go and where
would it dependencies go... right?
(9:32:33 AM) jboynes: yes
(9:32:52 AM) jboynes: re the doco, I think the website should be a
self-contained reference
(9:33:09 AM) jboynes: someone should not need to install anything to read
the doco
(9:33:24 AM) cr22rc: my experience is it gets confusing if on the web
site. people look at the the website stuff and apply it to the head.
(9:33:40 AM) Venkat: :)
(9:34:36 AM) meerajk: i can help on the doco for extensions
(9:34:49 AM) jboynes: cr22rc: that just means we need to version the doco
on the site
(9:35:25 AM) simonnash: i think doco should be part of the distro and not
only available from the web site. The web site is the front page intro and
could contain the distro docs as well for those who don't have the distro..
(9:36:16 AM) simonnash: agreed that if distro doco goes into the web site
then is needs to be versioned
(9:36:34 AM) jboynes: I think we have enough problems keeping one set of
doco up to date
(9:36:45 AM) jboynes: I'd like to see accurate doco on the site
(9:36:47 AM) simonnash: only the head version needs to be kept up to date
(9:37:06 AM) cr22rc: we need a means to make it real clear when stumbled
upon that it may not be applicable to the head trunk in svs
(9:37:11 AM) simonnash: me too. and I'd also like to see accurate dod
delivered with the distro
(9:37:20 AM) simonnash: dod==doco
(9:37:26 AM) jboynes: simonnash: I did'nt say tha
(9:37:41 AM) jboynes: I mean, keeping multiple forms up to date
(9:37:43 AM) simonnash: i didn't say that you did
(9:37:54 AM) jboynes: the form in the distro will be different to the form
on the site
(9:37:58 AM) simonnash: sorry maybe the wires are crossed. what are you
proposing?
(9:38:09 AM) jboynes: I think we need good doco on the site
(9:38:34 AM) jboynes: once we have that, let's look at versioning and in
producing a form for offline use
(9:38:49 AM) simonnash: i would say it differently
(9:39:26 AM) simonnash: i think we need good doco in the distro... when
hwe have that we can work out a strategy forw what goes on the site and how
it gets versioned
(9:39:41 AM) simonnash: maybe the two come to the same thing
(9:39:44 AM) jboynes: I thnk that's the wrong way around
(9:40:08 AM) jboynes: IMO it's the right way for a closed product, but not
good for a project
(9:40:30 AM) simonnash: the distro will close soon. what is in there needs
to be fit for purpose. the web site can be improved continuously.
(9:40:46 AM) jboynes: users go to the site first - we need to put users
fist
(9:40:48 AM) simonnash: eg for versioning
(9:40:48 AM) jboynes: first
(9:40:58 AM) bertlamb_ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
entered the room.
(9:41:29 AM) cr22rc: hmm I think we should have distro right .. needs to
be part of the build processes to bring in the doco.
(9:41:31 AM) simonnash: something needs to be on the site... at least
enough to help them understand what we have and preapre them for using the
distro
(9:41:43 AM) simonnash: and more is better too, if we have time
(9:42:10 AM) jboynes: IMO the site is more important
(9:42:32 AM) meerajk is now known as meerajk_away
(9:42:37 AM) simonnash: all users will have the distro. so they will have
whatever we include there
(9:42:52 AM) jboynes: I'd rather have no doco in the distro than bad doco
in the distro
(9:43:05 AM) jmarino: jboynes, didin't Geir have some agic tool for doco
in Geronimo?
(9:43:07 AM) jboynes: as then they will go to the site where bad doco can
be improved
(9:43:16 AM) simonnash: now it is my turn to say.. I didn't say that :-)
(9:43:17 AM) jboynes: for building the site yes
(9:43:58 AM) jmarino: could we leverage that somehow to get doco in and
then have it transformed to other formats...Hibernate has a tool that does
the transform
(9:44:04 AM) jboynes: but heck, if someone wants to write (good) doco to
go in the distro it would be welcome
(9:44:18 AM) jmarino: +1 to volunteers ;)
(9:44:33 AM) jboynes: yes that's what maven and anakia both try and do
(9:44:33 AM) simonnash: i hope we don't put bad doco in the distro as
well. this is the purpose of this disucssion, to work out what we can do
there that is good
(9:45:10 AM) jmarino: I think we will get bad doco if there are no
volunteers no matter where it goes :)
(9:45:18 AM) jboynes: I didn't get that bit - I thought we were talking
about doco for the project
(9:45:28 AM) jboynes: which IMO means getting the site done first
(9:45:32 AM) simonnash: quite a few people volunteered a few mins ago
(9:45:36 AM) jboynes: as that is the first place users go
(9:46:13 AM) jboynes: yes Venkat et al volunteered to pull the doco
together on the wiki and then on the site
(9:46:15 AM) jmarino: I think there are a number of areas left open still
(9:46:23 AM) jboynes: which IMO is all good stuff
(9:46:47 AM) jboynes: i don't think we need to add 'and in the distro as
well"
(9:47:48 AM) jboynes: as not only does that add work, it also raises the
bar as that means we need doco int the distro that stands alone without
scope for further improvement
(9:48:00 AM) jboynes: as once we ship its locked
(9:48:38 AM) simonnas1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] entered the room.
(9:48:58 AM) simonnas1: sorry, was disconnected beause of a flaky hotel
network
(9:49:20 AM) cr22rc: so is the code ... if we can't have good doco in the
distro to describe it .... can we really have good code ?
(9:49:23 AM) simonnas1: jmarino, we got quite a few volunteers for docs a
few mins ago
(9:49:47 AM) jboynes: cr22rc: yes
(9:50:12 AM) jboynes: it can be good code, just hard to use :)
(9:50:21 AM) jmarino: yes I see that. My point was that whether we have
good doc is not really based on the format it is in
(9:50:41 AM) rfen1: For my personal experience working with other open
source projects, I usually go to the web site to find documents instead of
looking into the distro
(9:50:45 AM) simonnas1: and who is to say that the code does what was
intended... without docs to say what was intended
(9:51:02 AM) simonnas1: it may do something good... but what is the
something
(9:51:05 AM) jmarino: I do agree that putting it in the site is better for
the reasons stated, particularly since things are evolving
(9:51:24 AM) jmarino: tests say whether code does as it is intended
(9:51:38 AM) cr22rc: rfeng ... I rarely look at the site... I figure the
distro doc matches code.
(9:51:55 AM) simonnas1: the distro is a snapshot. the code evolves after
the distro was cut. docs on the site should ideally reflect the latest code
(9:52:17 AM) simonnas1: in addition there could be versioned archives for
older distros
(9:52:24 AM) Venkat: jboynes: how about two levels of info... for website
and distro
(9:52:40 AM) jboynes: sure
(9:52:44 AM) jboynes: I think more is good
(9:52:58 AM) cr22rc: venkat ?
(9:53:05 AM) jboynes: I'm looking to see where the bar is
(9:53:08 AM) Venkat: the website can talk for example .. about the
standlone.. how it bootstraps to a basic J2SE and so on .but will not get
into the boot dir. the extn.. the dependency details and so on
(9:53:28 AM) jboynes: why not?
(9:53:30 AM) Venkat: the distro doc will talk about all the gory
details...
(9:53:40 AM) jboynes: better the other way around
(9:53:45 AM) simonnas1: actually i see that as the other way round
(9:53:46 AM) Venkat: just a sec...
(9:53:48 AM) jboynes: more info on the site
(9:53:59 AM) simonnas1: the distro docs sshould cover the basics tat every
user needs
(9:54:01 AM) jboynes: lol (we actually agree)
(9:54:08 AM) simonnas1: the web site can have more advanced material
(9:54:30 AM) Venkat: yes.. but what about the details... you want
everything loaded there.
(9:54:37 AM) jboynes: on the site, yes
(9:54:57 AM) simonnas1: not everyone needs all the details. but we need a
solution for those who do need them.
(9:55:07 AM) Venkat: so the distro has just about the site content in
pdf.. ?
(9:55:38 AM) simonnas1: i would prefer downloadable html
(9:56:09 AM) cr22rc: so do we take the site doco copy it into the build at
the time of creating the distro and say tada!
(9:56:22 AM) Venkat: :)
(9:57:28 AM) Venkat: ok.. lets get the doco with some decent details up...
then we will get to this... ?
(9:58:14 AM) jboynes: I have to run to a call so will be a bit distracted
(9:58:40 AM) Venkat: so to summarize : standalone is done, samples will
have to be tried out to make the relevant doc. out.
(9:58:44 AM) jboynes: having go through doco, what else is still to do?
(9:59:17 AM) Venkat: jboynes : is that right with standalone
(9:59:28 AM) cr22rc: "standalone is done" Is that a deliverable ?
(9:59:29 AM) Venkat: if so.. lets look now at the web app distro :
(10:00:37 AM) Venkat: yes.. one of the distros isn't it... so for the
Release Item nameed 'Distro' - 1) Standlaone 2) Webapp
(10:02:06 AM) jboynes: is the webapp distro still needed?
(10:02:27 AM) simonnas1: are we having distros for individual extensions
as well?
(10:02:36 AM) jboynes: we replaced it with meerajk_away's war plugin
(10:03:25 AM) cr22rc: hmmm I'd like to see a specific list of deliverables
(downloads) and what we feel is in them? Do we have this ?
(10:03:36 AM) jboynes: aiui we have 4 distros: the parent stuff, sdo, das
and sca (standalone)
(10:03:51 AM) simonnash left the room (quit: Read error: 110 (Connection
timed out)).
(10:03:52 AM) jboynes: plus a bunch of artifacts made available through
maven
(10:03:59 AM) kgoodson_away is now known as kgoodson
(10:04:49 AM) jboynes: do we agree on this?
(10:05:05 AM) [1]tsee [EMAIL PROTECTED]/ibm/x-bb3d7b6ee448141c] entered the
room.
(10:05:12 AM) cr22rc: just to make sure I understand if I get the
standalone, and don't have network connectivity it does not work? not saying
this is bad .. just trying to understand.
(10:05:15 AM) simonnas1: i'd like to understand how a non-maven user pulls
together the bunch of artifacts. I think there's a lot of value in having a
bundle with all the released contents for SCA
(10:05:46 AM) simonnas1: it's convenience as well as connectivity
(10:05:50 AM) jboynes: I take that as no
(10:06:10 AM) cr22rc: right now I'm just trying to understand
(10:06:15 AM) simonnas1: for now it's a no.
(10:06:31 AM) halehM: what is the alternative simonnas1
(10:06:36 AM) cr22rc: how about the samples ?
(10:06:44 AM) kg_logging [EMAIL PROTECTED]/ibm/x-89067b63dafe3cbf] entered
the room.
(10:06:52 AM) simonnas1: to change to yes, i would need to be convinced
that this is a good experience for non-maven users.
(10:07:00 AM) cr22rc: do we include them in the standalone
(10:07:35 AM) simonnas1: halehM, i was expecting a "full" package
includingall the release thinhgs we are voting on for SCA
(10:08:33 AM) halehM: Jeremy, what is the parent stuff that you mentioned
above? Isn't that 'full' pacakge that Simonnas1 is referring to?
(10:09:04 AM) jboynes: no, that's the stuff we were voting on last week
(10:09:12 AM) simonnas1: hahlhM, my "full" is just for full SCA. It does
not include SDO or DAS.
(10:09:42 AM) gwinn left the room.
(10:10:39 AM) jboynes: simonnas1: that's not what we have been discusing
on the list for the last 8 week
(10:11:19 AM) jboynes: it sounds like we have confusion on what people
think is in or is not in
(10:11:36 AM) jboynes: we also have basic confusion about things we are
going to vote on
(10:11:46 AM) jboynes: e.g. what is the parent stuff
(10:11:47 AM) simonnas1: i did not think we had closed the discussion on
packaging yet.
(10:11:55 AM) cr22rc: We agree!!!
(10:11:59 AM) cr22rc: LOL
(10:12:20 AM) jboynes: we need to clear this up and we should do it on the
mailing list not here so everyone can reference it
(10:12:20 AM) halehM: Let's take a step at the time. Start with
distribution. are there issues and if yes, what?
(10:12:30 AM) halehM: good idea
(10:12:48 AM) jboynes: halehM: how can we know if there are issues if we
do not even agree on what it is
(10:13:04 AM) halehM: :)
(10:13:08 AM) simonnas1: we need a proposal for what packages we are going
to deliver and in what form
(10:13:13 AM) halehM: I was hoping everyone has read the proposals
(10:13:18 AM) simonnas1: on the list for discussion
(10:13:29 AM) jboynes: simonnas1: I posted hat last week
(10:13:31 AM) jboynes: (again(
(10:13:50 AM) jboynes: at this point I don't know how else to communicate
it
(10:14:06 AM) jboynes: i think someone else needs to take over this
process
(10:14:29 AM) jboynes: I'm going to step down as release manager
(10:14:29 AM) halehM: Let's start with a link to the thread and find out
what are the outstanding questions. Would that work?
(10:14:45 AM) jboynes: let someone else have a go
(10:16:04 AM) halehM: Can we first focus on the outstanding questions?
There may be a communication gap here.
(10:16:06 AM) jboynes: I will say I've been interpreting silence as lazy
consensus
(10:16:25 AM) jboynes: that seems to have been a poot choice
(10:16:27 AM) jboynes: poor
(10:16:31 AM) simonnas1: jboynes, i am sorry if I overlooked something. I
am trying to find the post from you last week giving a proposal for the
packaging. still don't see it
(10:16:59 AM) jboynes: simonnas1: I'm sorry that I have failed to keep you
adequately informed
(10:17:15 AM) jboynes: as I said, I have been treating silence as lazy
consensus
(10:17:55 AM) jboynes: as surfaced last week, it is less of that and more
indicative of confusion
(10:18:35 AM) simonnas1: can you point me to the post? as I said, if I
have missed it then I apologize
(10:18:36 AM) jboynes: I think the most positive step at this time is for
someone to take over who's explanations seem to make more sense
(10:19:07 AM) jmarino: I think your explanations were fine for me but I'm
willing to try and reinitiate it on the list, not here
(10:19:18 AM) tsee left the room (quit: Read error: 110 (Connection timed
out)).
(10:19:18 AM) [1]tsee is now known as tsee
(10:19:25 AM) jboynes: the thread that started on 8/18 (around then) on
content
(10:19:48 AM) Venkat: 16th...
(10:19:58 AM) halehM: simonnash1: email says Vote"Release parent pom and
buildtools for M2
(10:20:02 AM) jboynes: the exact content has been moving e.g. see the
threads on packaging for SDO
(10:20:09 AM) kgoodson left the room (quit: Read error: 104 (Connection
reset by peer)).
(10:20:23 AM) kevin [EMAIL PROTECTED] entered
the room.
(10:20:31 AM) jboynes: stuff like "Strawman of revised SDO distribution"
(10:21:15 AM) jboynes: also the discussion on IRC last week on what was
in, what was out
(10:21:41 AM) simonnas1: the post on parent POM and buildtools said
nothing about what packages we release for SCA
(10:22:20 AM) simonnas1: likewise the what's in and out did not (I thought
but could be wrong) talk about how the "in" stuff would be packaged
(10:22:27 AM) jboynes: simonnas1: there is not one email - there are a
series of disucssions on the list
(10:22:34 AM) Venkat:
http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg06495.html
(10:22:59 AM) jboynes: as I said, it is pretty clear that I am not doing a
good job of communicating this
(10:23:19 AM) rfen1: maybe it confirms my observation that information on
the mailing list get lost
(10:23:26 AM) simonnas1: the revised SDO posts did not say what the SCA
packaging would be
(10:23:26 AM) jboynes: I think we are best served if someone else has a go
(10:24:08 AM) jboynes: hey simonnas1 if you're looking to blame me, go
ahead, but that does not help us make progress
(10:24:33 AM) jboynes: we need to clear up the understanding
(10:24:47 AM) simonnas1: i did not say anthing about blame. On the
contrary I apologized twice thinking I had missed something
(10:25:02 AM) jboynes: as I said, my assumption is that people read the
list and maintain contex
(10:25:05 AM) simonnas1: and still I suspect that this could be my fault.
i can't find the relevant post
(10:25:06 AM) jboynes: context
(10:25:11 AM) jboynes: I think that's a bad assumption
(10:25:11 AM) simonnas1: i am only asking for information
(10:25:36 AM) cr22rc: (out of band: clean repo... build. XMLSchema is
still unresolved by artifactresolver at run time)
(10:25:53 AM) jboynes: so, I apologize and am looking for another
volunteer to take over
(10:26:14 AM) jboynes: hopefully things will go smoother then
(10:26:48 AM) rfen1: jboynes, I don't think it's an individual's fault.
(10:27:06 AM) jboynes: rfen1: thanks I appreciate that
(10:27:16 AM) simonnas1: agreed. it is not helpful to talk about fault or
blame
(10:27:27 AM) jboynes: but we do have an issue and need a resolution to
make progress
(10:27:28 AM) simonnas1: we all need to work together on better
communications
(10:27:47 AM) Venkat: jboynes: the link that I have posted just now is
about that thread where you have listed candidates for release .. can
simonnas1 start with that ?
(10:28:25 AM) jboynes: brb - need to talk on the phone for a sec
(10:29:11 AM) simonnas1: venkat, did you post to the list? i don't see
that yet
(10:29:30 AM) rfen1: venkat, is it possible that we get the proposal and
some follow-ups into the WIKI?
(10:30:08 AM) Venkat: no just now in the IRC..
(10:30:11 AM) Venkat: will do it again..
(10:30:18 AM) Venkat:
http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg06495.html
(10:30:37 AM) rfen1: sometimes I also have trouble following the mailing
list since they are too many postings :-(
(10:32:26 AM) Venkat: Actually, I proposed over the ML that we start
putting down the release items on the wiki and track it there...but it fell
flat... not a soul replied.. or as rfeng says it is one of those mails that
misses the eye... with tons of others
(10:32:59 AM) Venkat: but then the second time around Jeremy blessed that
idea.. and it is now there on the wiki...
(10:33:19 AM) cr22rc: rfeng: me too and they don't seem to many times stay
on subject often
(10:34:46 AM) Venkat: The current stuff there in
http://wiki.apache.org/ws/Tuscany/TuscanyJava/M2Tasks#preview is actually
not comprehensive.. for example not all samples are covered.. not all types
of doco that we must make are covered
(10:35:35 AM) Venkat: but then if we made up our mind to update info only
there then as we do that we are going to reorganize and include things we
have left out...
(10:36:35 AM) halehM: It would be good if one could look at wiki and
conclude which feature is ready and if not what is remaining. What does
everyone think?
(10:36:37 AM) Venkat: for example when I tried to update info on rmi
samples this morning.. i reorganized samples a bit.. to give an indication
that more is going to get added here...
(10:37:16 AM) cr22rc: Venkat: should I just edit this directly, for
example to reflect bb status ?
(10:37:44 AM) Venkat: cr22rc: yes...
(10:38:31 AM) Venkat: just put the status and if possible the issues you
are facing.. just incase somebody else is able to help
(10:39:06 AM) cr22rc: personally I would prefer a blocking jira on each
item stopping the release. with a M2 tag ... my personal choice.
(10:39:13 AM) simonnas1: Thanks venkat. i have read through the whole of
that thread and I did not see any details on the packaging of these pieces.
there were various comments about how large a bundle we might want, so that
we don't require users to pull down a lot more than they need.
(10:39:34 AM) cr22rc: no more blocking defects := ready to release.
(10:40:51 AM) simonnas1: the extremes would be to bundle everything
together, or to bundle nothing at all and have all the pieces sepaarate.
between the extremes we would have a small number of pieces that could nbe
downloaded selectively.
(10:41:36 AM) simonnas1: i am in favour of the middle road. I think my use
of the work "full" might have been taken as everything on Jeremy's list of
8/16 which was not my intention
(10:41:42 AM) jmarino: simonnas1 there have been other threads as well,
and on irc
(10:41:51 AM) simonnas1: rather it was the collection of core "baseline"
pieces
(10:42:14 AM) simonnas1: plus other wthings that moost users would want
such as doco and samples
(10:44:26 AM) cr22rc: my experience with building tuscany from scratch
with no local repo is maven repos are very dicey. Sometimes things work
reasonably well. Other times you could pull out one of your own molars. I'm
worried that's the experience we're taking at a chance a user will have. my
2 cents.
(10:44:45 AM) simonnas1: i need to leave now. I think it is more
constructive to move forward rather than revisit who said what when. If
things were on IRC only and not on the list then it is possible that I
missed some of them
(10:46:43 AM) jmarino: it would be more constructive if we could make
forward progress an not have to revisit things :)
(10:47:09 AM) jmarino: (sorry for the frustration)
(10:48:11 AM) jboynes: ok, sorry, back (a little more anyway)
(10:49:16 AM) jboynes: stepping aside from simonnas1's questions, what do
other people think?
(10:49:26 AM) jboynes: are we clear on the process?
(10:49:38 AM) jboynes: do we know what is in and what is not?
(10:49:53 AM) jboynes: for stuff that is in, do we know the format?
(10:50:05 AM) cr22rc: well shouldn't that be listed somewhere ?
(10:50:26 AM) cr22rc: maybe on the status wiki ?
(10:51:25 AM) cr22rc: in the context of sca deliverables if its not there
I don't think it should be in, or we should get that updated.
(10:55:34 AM) halehM: jboynes, is there an email on IRC that summarises
what is in or out?
(10:55:34 AM) cr22rc: silence ? Did I offend all? :-)
(10:55:44 AM) halehM: oops email on mailing list.
(10:56:53 AM) halehM: Looking at this
http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg06495.html as the
starting point
(10:57:57 AM) cr22rc: halehm shouldn't what's in be on the status wiki? if
it's not there it's not in?
(10:58:52 AM) Venkat: cr22cc: on the wiki there are things that Jeremy has
asked as (in / out) .. we need to update for that based on where the current
work is
(10:59:17 AM) Venkat: ok... I plan to add the following parameters to each
item...
(10:59:21 AM) halehM: I am not sure if Wiki is up to date. Is it?
(10:59:33 AM) cr22rc: ok so that wiki just needs updating ... pardons.
(10:59:39 AM) Venkat: IT IS NOT
(11:00:08 AM) Venkat: quite a bit of work has progressed after that.. but
that is not updated..
(11:01:30 AM) Venkat: ok.. back to the parameters 1) Features in the
Release Item (just high level) 2) what is completed in the features and what
remains 3)...
(11:01:46 AM) Venkat: 3) Are samples in place (name of the sample)
(11:02:06 AM) Venkat: 4) What are documentations that support this item
(11:02:56 AM) Venkat: 5) JIRAs pending closure related to this item
(11:03:04 AM) Venkat: anything else ?
(11:04:07 AM) Venkat: will this make sense ? is there a buy in for this ?
(11:04:19 AM) simonnas1 left the room (quit: Read error: 110 (Connection
timed out)).
(11:04:28 AM) rfen1: sounds good to me
(11:04:55 AM) halehM: Venkat, this would only work if everyone
participates and updates the page
(11:05:15 AM) Venkat: yes.. that is why am asking right here.. and will do
it over the ML as well
(11:06:26 AM) rfen1: I think the release is a community effort anyway. so
everyone should participate and update the page :-)
(11:06:47 AM) kevin: yes
(11:06:54 AM) cr22rc: ok
(11:07:40 AM) Venkat: jboynes, jmarino ?
(11:07:48 AM) jmarino: hey
(11:07:53 AM) jboynes: +1 to rfen1
(11:08:24 AM) jmarino: yes +1
(11:08:58 AM) Venkat: ok then, let me get this sort of template on the
items in the wiki. I will post a mail after that.. and then please each of
you update it.
(11:09:15 AM) jmarino: thanks Venkat for pulling this together
