A clip of Letterman interviewing Lindsey Lohan has made the rounds online tonight. It’s not being received well
https://twitter.com/treytylor/status/1360661970924556291?s=21 On Sat, Feb 13, 2021 at 7:22 PM PGage <[email protected]> wrote: > Yeah but...at the NYT, isn’t it customary that if they are unable to do > their own reporting, or share the reliable reporting of other credible > journalists, that they don’t run the story? > > I would say the documentary was basically about the podcast and social > media fan sites, with a tacked on reminder of who Spears is for those who > forgot. There is a story here, but the NYT never got into it. At least, > instead of repeating the fans vague assertion that people as young and > active as Spears are rarely put on probate Conservatorship (which, I > believe is true), why not give us some basic numbers? How many people are > placed on PC each year in this country, how many of those are under 60 and > not obviously demented or gravely impaired? Of those younger adults not > obviously gravely impaired, what do we know about them? Are they usually > wealthy? Are their concerns about minor children? Of the (again, I believe > the fans are correct) relatively few who have gotten off of PC, how did > that happen? Why not find a few as similarly situated to Spears as possible > and interview them? > > There are questions about mismanagement of her estate; she had this huge > Vegas deal taking in millions per year (! How many people on PC are > currently earning tens of millions of dollars per year?) and yet her total > estate is valued at “only” $50 something million, which seems like less > than what she was worth before the Vegas deal. A Conservator is only > supposed to be able to make major decisions about assets with court > approval, and most of these financial records are supposed to be public. > Why didn’t the documentary report on this? > > On Sat, 13 Feb 2021 at 4:20 PM Tom Wolper <[email protected]> wrote: > >> I am going to guess this is a stab at being more relevant by the NYT and >> it's dealing with tighter deadlines and not getting the resources that go >> to the print product. It's not simply clickbait because there is a real >> story here. The choice of Britney as a subject and the time spent talking >> about and to her most fervent fans leads me to think that it was done that >> way to get attention from fans. The fact is the core of the story is a >> court fight involving Britney and her father and the NYT crew couldn't get >> any comment from Britney (or her lawyers), her father (or his lawyers), or >> the court and they pressed ahead and aired this as a story. >> >> On Fri, Feb 12, 2021 at 3:10 AM PGage <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Okay, I watched the “Framing Britney Spears” “documentary” on Hulu. >>> Yikes. >>> >>> 1. How did the NYT let its name be attached to this? It looks and smells >>> more like TMZ. It is little more than a summary of what has been said and >>> reported by people on social media, with little or no actual independent >>> reporting from the NYT. >>> >>> 2. One of the most basic things missing is an explanation of what it >>> means to be on conservatorship in CA (there are several different kinds) >>> and what a judge had to have found to be true to put her on one. I am most >>> familiar with LPS Conservators, who do have the power to commit people to >>> psychiatric hospitalization. It appears that Spears has a Probate (not LPS) >>> Conservatorship, for both Person and Estate. These conservators (even for >>> Person) can not hospitalize the conservatee against their will. So, if >>> Spears was hospitalized against her will, it would have had to have been >>> because doctors found her to be a danger to herself or others, or (much >>> less likely) gravely disabled. We know she was hospitalized on a 5150 back >>> in the 2008 period, but I don’t think we know what the status was of the >>> most recent hospitalization. Her father could have coerced her into >>> accepting hospitalization, since he controls her finances and many aspects >>> of her person, but again we don’t know (and again, the NYT offers no >>> original reporting about this). >>> >>> 3. There is always the possibility of gross corruption (the father pays >>> off the judges and others to rule in his favor), but to assume this without >>> evidence is the definition of a conspiracy theory. More likely is that, >>> whatever else is going on, Spears suffers from a serious psychiatric >>> disorder. I am surprised that for all the histrionic “Leave Brittany >>> Alone!” Type Fan groups cited in the Doc, there seemed to be little >>> recognition of or care about this basic fact by people who claim to love >>> her. The court has to be primarily concerned with the mental health and >>> well-being of Spears, and the fact she is still conserved suggests that the >>> court has evidence that she continues to have significant problems. >>> Whatever else is going on, she likely continues to be a very disordered and >>> unhappy person. >>> >>> 4. While I am not as familiar with probate Conservatorship, what I do >>> know leaves me surprised and somewhat suspicious that it is being used in >>> Spears case, at least for Person. What the documentary does not tell us is >>> why the court settled on Conservatorship, when, as I understand it, to do >>> so they have to first consider and reject several other less restrictive >>> arrangements. I have never treated anyone as wealthy as Spears, but it does >>> smell like this entire scheme was designed with the well-being of her >>> estate (and perhaps the financial interests of record and other >>> corporations) in mind, rather than of Spears herself. >>> >>> 5. My guess is that at the heart of all this is the judgement that >>> Spears was found to be pathologically vulnerable to influence by suspicious >>> people, like Sam Lutfi. This is alluded to in the documentary, but with >>> very little actual reporting. As suspicious as I am of her father, by >>> relying on tabloid and social media memes the documentary is probably >>> unfair to him. More likely the courts have repeatedly found that without >>> the Conservatorship, Spears would fall under the control of Lutfi and >>> people like him who would be more harmful to her than her father. If >>> something like this is true, I can see why the courts would be reluctant to >>> eliminate the Conservatorship, or even to name someone as Conservator of >>> Spears own choosing. It is actually possible that the current arrangement >>> gives Spears as much freedom as is consistent with her own well-being, and >>> that of her children, by limiting the ability of unsavory influencers to >>> manipulate her to drain her resources and harm others. >>> >>> The reason we know so little about this is that most of it is not >>> properly our business. The Courts are there to review the case and protect >>> her interests, not Instagrammers. Still, with so much money at stake, it >>> may be appropriate for the press to ensure that the courts are acting >>> properly. I just wish the press in this case was doing a better job. >>> >>> On Thu, 11 Feb 2021 at 2:48 PM PGage <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Ok, sounds like maybe I will check out the doc. My take on her around >>>> that time was that she needed a conservator, but it should not have been >>>> her father, or anyone who stood to profit from commodifying her. >>>> >>>> On Thu, 11 Feb 2021 at 1:00 PM Tom Wolper <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 10:58 AM Kevin M. <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Yeah, yesterday Diane Sawyer trended because people suddenly decided >>>>>> her interview of Spears from nearly two decades ago was bad, which is a >>>>>> bit >>>>>> like people only just now realizing Geraldo is really bad at his job. >>>>>> >>>>>> I miss Ferguson on late night. I understand why he got out when he >>>>>> did, but I still wish he’d have stayed through Trump. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I wanted to watch the Britney doc on Hulu before responding so I could >>>>> avoid hot takes. >>>>> >>>>> I have taken to watching documentaries about bands from when I grew >>>>> up, usually on YouTube. There are two types: movie length promotions made >>>>> for fans where the band is awesome, all their music is awesome, and >>>>> they'll >>>>> be beloved until the end of time. And then there are more reflective >>>>> documentaries, made a couple of decades after the band broke up, where the >>>>> musicians, managers, record company executives, etc talk about the rise of >>>>> the band, what life was like at the top, and why it fell apart. Those are >>>>> the documentaries I watch. I'll even watch if it's about a band or an >>>>> artist who was very popular but I didn't follow at the time. I figure I >>>>> can >>>>> put my biases aside and see if I missed out on any good music. >>>>> >>>>> The Britney documentary was not about her music. The frame is a legal >>>>> battle over conservatorship, a status she entered into in 2008. The first >>>>> half of the doc is about her life up to 2008 and the second half is about >>>>> the conservatorship, the legal situation, and a movement from her fans to >>>>> end the conservatorship. The first half is tough to watch even though it >>>>> happened in recent enough memory. The tabloids saw dollar signs in >>>>> covering >>>>> her and they had no conscience about any damage they might be doing to her >>>>> and certainly no restraint. And the attitude infiltrated into mainstream >>>>> celebrity coverage like the Diane Sawyer interview. It would be at least >>>>> as >>>>> much of a relief for me to know that she gives up music altogether and >>>>> goes >>>>> to live a quiet life somewhere raising her kids (and there's no sign of >>>>> that happening) as hearing she is recording a new album. >>>>> >>>>> As for Craig Ferguson he brought his own vulnerability into his >>>>> monologues and the show and it was really refreshing to see him so >>>>> fearless >>>>> talking about his past. He had an empathy for his guests and I miss that, >>>>> too. In the late stages of his show he burned out and stopped putting any >>>>> effort into it. I really liked the show during his peak, but I'm glad he >>>>> got out of it in time. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAJE-FiFFEGuM9THGVeGuW7-6Li0qjfWiJubzxUhz0MX_xDzvfQ%40mail.gmail.com >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAJE-FiFFEGuM9THGVeGuW7-6Li0qjfWiJubzxUhz0MX_xDzvfQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>> . >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> Sent from Gmail Mobile >>>> >>> -- >>> Sent from Gmail Mobile >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> >> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAKGtkYKWQS5RqwJu11xEDG61kuQkv469ahj8xJhK00EWT6wvkA%40mail.gmail.com >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAKGtkYKWQS5RqwJu11xEDG61kuQkv469ahj8xJhK00EWT6wvkA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "TVorNotTV" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAJE-FiHc-gX2mxUVebUufzZwmqnQouGeRwobBeFmVA54Y7t5Pw%40mail.gmail.com >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAJE-FiHc-gX2mxUVebUufzZwmqnQouGeRwobBeFmVA54Y7t5Pw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > -- > Sent from Gmail Mobile > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "TVorNotTV" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAKGtkY%2BOp1CLPqN0QyA1QLNJDmLVUm2YNThN%3DQSCcSU5uhFXLA%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAKGtkY%2BOp1CLPqN0QyA1QLNJDmLVUm2YNThN%3DQSCcSU5uhFXLA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- Kevin M. 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