What I hadn't really appreciated until the Zas regime arrived, is the ongoing costs that a lot of these shows (and films) have just being listed on the service.
Historically it made sense that channels/streamers paid on a limited time licencing basis to air a show. The rights to Friends went to Netflix for $100m a year or whatever. When those rights expire, Warners could shop the show to the next customer. And of course, the show was created in a time when the various creatives on the show got percentages of all those rights. So even with the show now on HBO Max in the US (it's still on Netflix in the UK), they have to pay to keep it there in accordance with all those original contracts. There was that case with Bones a few years back when Fox was found guilty of essentially self-dealing on the licencing fees it charged for the show, letting Hulu get it cheaply and therefore leaving the creatives who were due a share of sales being under-recompensed. But in more recent times, a streamer usually just buys out the entirety of a show's rights. Netflix owns 100% of Stranger Things for as long as they want it. The various production companies involved got paid at the start (or over 36 months as we recently learned), and that's their lot. Maybe they negotiated some kind of bonus system with Netflix if the show achieves certain goals. Who knows? But in essence, that initial payment is their lot. And this makes a lot of sense for Netflix who needs a catalogue that isn't reliant on shows that might fly to another service if someone writes a cheque big enough. There was a recent report ( https://www.ampereanalysis.com/insight/netflix-originals-and-exclusives-now-the-majority-of-its-us-catalogue#:~:text=Under%20current%20growth%20rates%2C%2075,50%25%20threshold%20by%20Q4%202022.) that Netflix Originals and Exclusives (not the same thing!) had reached 50% of their catalogue in the US. Nirvana for them would surely be owning a show like Friends or The Office with upwards of ten seasons, and hundreds of hours, but which they don't have to pay another dime to hang onto. They've not really got that yet - maybe The Ranch was something they hoped might fit the bill? I managed one episode, but they made 80! Given the way HBO has behaved in the past, for the most part holding on tightly to its shows so that they don't go elsewhere, I'd imagined that they bought out quite a lot of their shows' rights at the start. Yes, The Sopranos and Sex and the City ended up on other channels for periods of time, but you could always get them on HBO/HBO Go/HBO Max/HBO Whatever. And it was HBO's choice to licence them out. So beyond the actual streaming costs, I'd thought that there would be no additional cost to them serving those shows. But I'm not sure that's true. Recent events suggest that in many cases, there are fees payable for keeping shows in the HBO Max catalogue - either ongoing licencing fees to hang onto them even when they were HBO/HBO Max shows from the outset, or fees payable to the production studio/creatives/whoever when you stream an episode. Otherwise there'd be no point to removing shows even when they're cancelled. I suspect that in truth this is a complex area with some long-term, but perhaps not exclusive deals. Each show might have subtly different rights associated with it. Maybe HBO agreed to pay Martin Scorcese an annual fee to keep Vinyl on the service, just because of who he is. Then, when it's streamed by three people a year or whatever, they decide that fee is no longer worthwhile. And things change over time. At the start Netflix just *licenced *House of Cards. It aired on other channels around the world in territories where Netflix didn't exist at the time. Who knows whether Netflix will at some point lose the rights to it globally? Anyway, I was just listening to The Vergecast team reading the runes on the fate of the various streaming services. I don't necessarily agree with all their calls, but it's an interesting listen: https://www.theverge.com/the-vergecast Julia Alexander on the Downstream podcast (and Puck) is also well worth a listen: https://www.relay.fm/downstream Adam On Thu, Dec 15, 2022 at 3:06 PM Mark Jeffries <[email protected]> wrote: > I would guess that "Curb" would be safe. In the case of "Larry Sanders," > Sony owns the show and if WBD ever lets the license run out, they'll sell > it to another pay streamer. > > Mark Jeffries > [email protected] > > > On Thu, Dec 15, 2022 at 12:51 AM PGage <[email protected]> wrote: > >> I’m just catching up to this. Westworld getting the Zas treatment is >> surprising. Not that it got cancelled (I think I got through the second >> season, but maybe not I got so bored and no longer recall), but it was a >> prestige show at one point. Are they going to take down Deadwood or The >> Wire at some point? Larry Sanders or Curb Your Enthusiasm? >> >> Most surprising, Deadline suggests that the explanation lies in Zas >> wanting to use Westworld to start his own FAST (Free Ad Supported Streaming >> Television) outlet. Of course FAST is a natural for the Discovery brand, >> but Westworld, especially Season 1, seems less well suited for that than, >> say Mythbusters. >> >> >> https://deadline.com/2022/12/westworld-the-nevers-pulled-hbo-max-canceled-1235197233/ >> >> >> On Tue, 13 Dec 2022 at 2:34 AM Adam Bowie <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> (Snip) I see that WBD is busily cancelling and pulling lots of stuff off >>> its service. So not only is S5 of Westworld still cancelled by S1-4 are >>> being pulled off HBO Max. Meanwhile The Nevers is never going to air the >>> second part of its first season - well at least not on HBO Max. Sad to see >>> that Love Life has been canned too, as I liked that show. >>> >>> >>> Adam >>> >> >>> On Tue, Dec 13, 2022 at 1:01 AM 'Bob Jersey' via TVorNotTV < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Found this only to note that Zas budget cuts forced the canning of >>>> *Minx* despite a renewal... Lionsgate was given back the complete >>>> series to offer to other providers... >>>> >>>> https://variety.com/2022/tv/news/minx-canceled-hbo-max-season-2-1235458073/ >>>> (link) >>>> B >>>> >>>> Moi, March 11th: >>>> >>>>> ...and going "tit for tat" with male nudity on the HBOmax series that >>>>> could have ended up on Peacock (how fitting)... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/minx-creator-on-male-nudity-feminism-1235108876/ >>>>> (link) >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/bc71814f-3188-450d-8f24-9e42f412b5ban%40googlegroups.com >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/bc71814f-3188-450d-8f24-9e42f412b5ban%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAD_sJGCcUh-R3oR7x0cKZjkPmLyc3aUZP%3DcumwEF%2BGqqk2KmLg%40mail.gmail.com >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAD_sJGCcUh-R3oR7x0cKZjkPmLyc3aUZP%3DcumwEF%2BGqqk2KmLg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >> -- >> Sent from Gmail Mobile >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "TVorNotTV" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAKGtkY%2B9hB84HRWk-o3AoJ31Mfo5Jf1T1Uo_%3D6xz67XGu5m3dQ%40mail.gmail.com >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAKGtkY%2B9hB84HRWk-o3AoJ31Mfo5Jf1T1Uo_%3D6xz67XGu5m3dQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "TVorNotTV" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAJ_uKi8StOxH8VdorQ971kx2iKVPnT%3Dx9omfnNJCFFLRT_dP%3DA%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAJ_uKi8StOxH8VdorQ971kx2iKVPnT%3Dx9omfnNJCFFLRT_dP%3DA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVorNotTV" group. 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