And for the five years that Lorne wasn't there, Jean Doumanian was trying to keep status quo with a new group of people and failed and Dick Ebersol just wanted to mainstream the show and succeeded (although he did hand over the comedy reins to Michael O'Donoghue, who has never been Mr. Mainstream). O'Donoghue tried to make big changes to the format (drop the cold open, fire Don Pardo, replace the Edie Baskin New York-as-paradise titles with the New York-as-hell titles, not have a guest host every week and generally go as dark and anti-establishment as he could with Ebersol's dictum to have Joe Piscopo and Eddie Murphy in as many sketches as possible), but that was difficult to pull off and an ultradark "SNL" would still be on the air in 2024. (I almost think that he did the Fear booking and the "Silverman in the Bunker" sketch to get fired on purpose--and succeeded.) And every format change that O'Donoghue all went back to the way they were--including Don Pardo.
Yeah, it would've been nice that after Lorne came back to get the show back in shape that he would've taken the money, left and started trying other things, leaving "SNL" in other hands to sink or swim. If, if, if... Mark Jeffries [email protected] On Sat, Aug 3, 2024 at 9:05 AM PGage <[email protected]> wrote: > Totally agree with the criticism of the Comedy Cult of Personality they > have over there. It’s not that he has a crappy sense of humor, but by > definition that will be a narrow window that leaves out too much. It would > have been nice over the last 50 years to have the same ratio of crappy to > genius comedy coming through two or three or ten other filters. > > Sent from Gmail Mobile > > > On Sat, 3 Aug 2024 at 2:39 AM Dave Sikula <[email protected]> wrote: > >> For me, it's less of a commonality of styles than it is "Lorne finds this >> funny." That's fine on its own, but I don't think mass entertainment should >> depend on the tastes of one person, no matter who that is. Sure, there are >> variations between these performers' styles, but I don't find "comedy" as >> varied as it was in the years before SNL. >> >> I deliberately left off the likes of Hader and Fey because I think their >> voices would have evidenced themselves even without the SNL boost. (And, as >> you note, David and JLD certainly traveled that route.) >> >> --Dave Sikula >> >> On Friday, August 2, 2024 at 08:30:55 PM PDT, PGage <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> >> So, I can agree with part of this. I mostly like Murray’s comedy, but not >> Sandler or Farley, about half of Farrell, and McKinnon but not Wiig. I see >> these and so many other SNL performers to have real differences, and am >> often puzzled by the broad brush you use to dismiss almost all of them >> (except, inexplicably like the French with Jerry Lewis, Keenan Thompson). >> >> Can you put your finger on some of the common elements you see in this >> brand of comedy that you dislike? Sandler/Farley is kind of low brow, but I >> don’t really see Murray or Fey or Hartman that way. I’m thinking what it is >> you don’t like about the Lorne Michaels comedy culture (maybe because you >> have said this before?) is it’s kind of smart alecky, sarcastic, >> disparaging tone - is that part of it? That maybe could be a kind of common >> thread in SNL style comedy, though it hardly seems unique to Lorne >> Michaels, and is a criticism that could be made of groups like the Pythons >> as well. >> >> I agree with the criticism of LM for running a simultaneously indulgent >> and abusive shop over the years. And he seems to have realized early on >> that putting on a new live 90 min show every night was just too hard, and >> so he has relied on a relatively small set of pre fabbed set ups and stock, >> repeatable characters that stifle creativity and innovation as much as they >> allowed strung out, overworked, exhausted and often traumatized writers and >> performers get a show on in a week. >> >> But I think he has also identified and attracted an unusually high level >> of comic talent to work for him over the years. While early on most of that >> talent went on to make broad, mass appeal comic films of questionable >> quality, his alumni have also gone on to produce some of the highest >> quality work in television after leaving him, or if not leaving him, at >> least SNL (Chris Rock, Tina Fey, Amy Poehler, Bill Hader, Jason Sudeikis). >> Even without giving him any credit for folks like Julia Louis Dreyfus or >> Larry David, who he whiffed on, it’s a pretty impressive record. >> >> >> Sent from Gmail Mobile >> >> >> On Thu, 1 Aug 2024 at 11:02 PM 'Dave Sikula' via TVorNotTV < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >> For me, the biggest problem with SNL isn't that it's not funny (and, of >> course, it isn't), it's that Lorne's questionable sense of humor has come >> to be the mainstream model for American comedy by inflicting people like >> Murray, Sandler, Farley, Farrell, Wiig, and McKinnon on the American and >> world public and making them the standard. >> >> When he goes -- and that day can't come soon enough -- that model will >> hopefully fade away. >> >> I'm reminded of what Stella Adler said to her class the day Lee Strasberg >> died: "A great man of the theatre died today: Lee Strasberg. (Pause.) It >> will take the American theatre fifty years to recover from what he did to >> it." >> >> --Dave Sikula >> >> On Wednesday, July 31, 2024 at 11:51:07 AM UTC-7 Tom Wolper wrote: >> >> There was a narrative about rock music that went music was stupid and >> boring and was played by square people for square people. Then one day some >> white boys plugged their electric guitars into amps and brought forth rock >> and roll, which was and is awesome music, and freed everybody’s minds, and >> then Woodstock and so on and so on. >> >> As time passed and the artists and audience matured, a much more >> introspective and complex narrative emerged. It’s a lot more satisfying to >> read and watch and it really points out the shallowness of the previous >> narrative. >> >> There is a parallel narrative for comedy where comedy was square until >> SNL came along and made it awesome. There has been a smaller amount of >> introspection and those of us who are dreading the SNL movie feel that as >> long as Lorne is in charge the shallow narrative is the only story that >> will be allowed to air. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "TVorNotTV" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/eb468807-0676-4383-862b-7da1de33c404n%40googlegroups.com >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/eb468807-0676-4383-862b-7da1de33c404n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the >> Google Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/tvornottv/qKn031liDg4/unsubscribe. >> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >> [email protected]. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAKGtkYKaUsOwfu1655hQwiok-eHmUnsSv0hZGv5jADP2%3Dmgw1A%40mail.gmail.com >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAKGtkYKaUsOwfu1655hQwiok-eHmUnsSv0hZGv5jADP2%3Dmgw1A%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "TVorNotTV" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/1937144810.2706656.1722671971154%40mail.yahoo.com >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/1937144810.2706656.1722671971154%40mail.yahoo.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "TVorNotTV" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAKGtkYJJaA6RNBDikHvW6ePSBBFePDu7LpJKzbyFekSdwGs6zA%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAKGtkYJJaA6RNBDikHvW6ePSBBFePDu7LpJKzbyFekSdwGs6zA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVorNotTV" group. 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