Wow, I am not familiar with Helen Lewis, but her writing impressed me enough that I’m thinking of subscribing to the Atlantic.
I really liked her point that there was a time that American culture seemed to celebrate stand-up comics as public intellectuals; I plead guilty to doing that with people like Dave Chappelle. The problem is not that Chapelle and his ilk are horrible people (some are, some not, most in between). It’s that these people are not intellectuals, they are not particularly educated and their insights are not particularly incisive. They get paid to make people laugh and buy drinks, and they are relatively successful at doing that. She described the comics who played Saudi Arabia as mostly Americans “many, like C.K., have had previous encounters with left-wing cancel culture….Plus a whole bunch of independent podcasters whose material would never make it onto Saturday Night Live.” These are guys who are just looking to say “fuck you”, to not mainstream American culture but to a mainstream liberal American culture that for a time lionized them, confusing the ability and willingness to make funny jokes about George W. Bush-era conservative culture with incisive social commentary. Bill Maher and Louis CK are not and never were public intellectuals, much less liberal social critics. That is not a crime, and the shame is on those of us who misperceived who they were. So it’s not really surprising when the level of discourse these comics use to justify their performance in Riyadh doesn’t rise above the level of lazy, C- sophomore college English paper. One minor comic from the UK tells Lewis on the plane home that there’s no moral difference between taking money from the Saudi government or the BBC (Several American comic made the same point about taking money from American corporations or even just American paying customers). This is just banal self justifying rationalization masquerading as hardheaded social critique. It’s practiced by billions of human beings every day; shame on any of us if we expected better from Dave Chappelle or Bill Burr. My favorite bit in the Lewis article really highlights the mediocrity of the thinking of these guys; She gives a extended excerpt from Bill Burr “gushing” About his time in Riyadh on his podcast, and then slip in the knife: “My whole fucking idea of Saudi Arabia is what I’ve seen on the news,” he said. “I literally think I’m going to fucking land, you know, and everybody’s going to be screaming ‘Death to America!’ and they’re going to have like fucking machetes and want to like chop my head off, right?” However, “everybody’s just regular—like, shooting the shit.” (His next special should be called Bill Burr’s Low Bar.)” Sent from Gmail Mobile On Thu, 16 Oct 2025 at 8:44 AM Adam Bowie <[email protected]> wrote: > There's an excellent piece by Helen Lewis in The Atlantic about the comedy > festival, as she actually went to it. > > > https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2025/10/fear-laughing-riyadh-comedy-louis-ck/684527/ > > On Fri, Oct 10, 2025 at 1:30 AM PGage <[email protected]> wrote: > >> I think we can just come out and say it’s stupid. I would have more >> respect for comics who admitted they we’re just casting in on a big payday. >> Burr and Anzari are engaging in these tortured rationalizations Is almost >> as embarrassing as prostituting themselves for murderers. >> >> Sent from Gmail Mobile >> >> >> On Thu, 9 Oct 2025 at 2:59 PM Kevin M. <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> His side is extremely naive and sophomoric >>> >>> Kevin M. (RPCV) >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Oct 9, 2025 at 2:52 PM 'Bob F' via TVorNotTV < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Another participant, Aziz Ansari, gave his side last night to Kimmel: >>>> >>>> https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/aziz-ansari-riyadh-comedy-festival-jimmy-kimmel-live-1236396832/ >>>> (link) >>>> B >>>> >>>> Kevin M, Sept 28th: >>>> >>>> Pete Davidson and Bill Burr, among others. All being paid over $300k to >>>> attend a comedy festival in Saudi Arabia. Naturally, their free speech is >>>> restricted. >>>> >>>> >>>> https://variety.com/2025/politics/global/marc-maron-human-rights-riyadh-comedy-festival-1236530044/?fbclid=IwdGRjcANGi2dleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHq9XCn-5tz1PrkXQX1TwrE9afhdZGDzCuDlTDax5mfHp41nfUs9kAwCnjvux_aem_ffRsmd1pFf2Q1ETsYAAhLw >>>> >>>> People like Marc Maron are questioning the ethics of taking money from >>>> the same prince who not too long ago murdered a journalist. >>>> >>>> Leah Remini has weighed in. >>>> >>>> https://youtu.be/FDBqz1Va4Js?si=WPwgkooQELR6S6Pv >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> To view this discussion visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/f4ba3d83-e1bf-40f9-bd21-e30f6db5dd91n%40googlegroups.com >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/f4ba3d83-e1bf-40f9-bd21-e30f6db5dd91n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> To view this discussion visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAKgmY4AH0XngcZ_a_%2BSUgybv%2BwCOWAqHMO4zVggKgFKHzLan4g%40mail.gmail.com >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAKgmY4AH0XngcZ_a_%2BSUgybv%2BwCOWAqHMO4zVggKgFKHzLan4g%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "TVorNotTV" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> > To view this discussion visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAKGtkYL4Yvvgpy%2BsMuiVN4vAVKQO9esprJNf%2B1_4FAyqF6k3vg%40mail.gmail.com >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAKGtkYL4Yvvgpy%2BsMuiVN4vAVKQO9esprJNf%2B1_4FAyqF6k3vg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "TVorNotTV" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAD_sJGAKEwc5LP0Fy5BV88AXckYjReAnF%2BRAEeaL4CnQPiAA2w%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAD_sJGAKEwc5LP0Fy5BV88AXckYjReAnF%2BRAEeaL4CnQPiAA2w%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVorNotTV" group. 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