Thanks again, Ian. I've fitted a collapsing button on a test 
page<http://www.fredriley.org.uk/callhull/test.html>and it works fine when the 
width goes below 940px. The built with bootstrap 
site is also a very useful link, and for sure I'll be pilfering some code 
from that! One of the curses of such a successful and popular framework is 
that so many sites end up looking similar, so the wide variation in the 
showcase illustrates that, with a bit of effort, you can go beyond the 
'default' Bootstrap look. 

I've updated to the latest Bootstrap (2.2.2) but the dropdown-button 
problem still remains on a smartphone. Clicking on any item in the dropdown 
either re-collapses the menu if there's no link behind the dropdown, or 
hits a link behind it. This is a nuisance in that there's no way that the 
user can get to the main page (eg Celtic) directly, so I might have to 
implement a split button 
dropdown<http://twitter.github.com/bootstrap/components.html#buttonDropdowns>
.

Cheers

Fred 

On Saturday, January 5, 2013 1:48:28 PM UTC, iange87 wrote:
>
> Yep, I'm Ian. No problem. As I understand it, it's a general weakness of 
> the framework. You should be able, however, to add a second collapsing nav 
> composed of the dropdowns etc you're already using simply by adding the 
> class nav-collapse al la your top nav, plus the toggle button. You'll need 
> to do a little fiddling with IDs so that the buttons only operate the 
> correct nav, not both at once. I've not needed the drop downs in my own 
> sites so I've not really thought about their limitations on mobile. I know 
> there's been a fair bit of chatter about it on these groups though.
>
> I've just been having a quick google for the issue, and it is indeed one 
> of the known problems. Have you seen 
> this<https://github.com/twitter/bootstrap/issues/4550>? 
> Also, there's supposed to be a work around included in bootstrap version 
> 2.2.2, I notive you've got 2.1.
>
> I agree with the single platform thing, which is why I'm such a fan of 
> bootstrap.
>
> See builtwithbootstrap.com
>
> Best of luck!
>
> On Saturday, January 5, 2013 12:30:02 PM UTC, Fred Riley wrote:
>>
>> Thanks, Ian (is it Ian?), that's helpful. I'll look into another main 
>> navigation setup, though it would be nice to keep the current setup as IMO 
>> it's well-balanced. Why do you (or anyone else) think that the dropdown 
>> menu items (in the Celtic 
>> <http://www.fredriley.org.uk/callhull/celtic.html>doc, for instance) are 
>> failing on mobiles? Click on a dropdown and try to hit a menu item, and the 
>> hit will just go through it. 
>>
>> I could implement the site as more mobile-friendly by using jQuery mobile 
>> or another framework, but I'm reluctant to do that as I'm a great believer 
>> in write once many platforms development. 
>>
>> I've not looked at the Bootstrap 
>> examples<http://twitter.github.com/bootstrap/getting-started.html#examples>on
>>  a smartphone as yet, but will do to see how their navbars behave. Where 
>> is the 'built by bootstrap' showcase you mentioned? 
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Fred
>>
>> On Friday, January 4, 2013 11:49:49 PM UTC, iange87 wrote:
>>>
>>> As far as I can see, Fred, the problem is that you haven't inserted the 
>>> top nav bar correctly. You've not included the html code for the button to 
>>> toggle the collapsed state so when you get to a certain width where the 
>>> items are hidden, you've no way to make them visible. I'd suggest another 
>>> look at the docs, specifically the responsive 
>>> navbar<http://twitter.github.com/bootstrap/components.html#navbar>
>>> .
>>>
>>> As for your other issues, I'm not sure what to suggest but I'm sure 
>>> someone else will be along to help shortly! :-) I would suggest that your 
>>> problems are possibly down to the number of items in your menu. As you 
>>> shrink the screen, the items get more closely packed and harder to select. 
>>> Maybe you could try adding padding through media queries, or maybe explore 
>>> another method of navigation (probably not the answer you were after).
>>>
>>> As for examples, have you had a look through those listed on the main 
>>> site, or in the galleries such as built with bootstrap? There's hundreds, 
>>> and you can easily view the source code to work out what's going on.
>>>
>>> Best of luck!
>>>
>>> On Friday, January 4, 2013 11:03:52 PM UTC, Fred Riley wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Thanks to help from this group, and the excellent Bootstrap docs, I've 
>>>> put together a static site <http://www.fredriley.org.uk/callhull/>which 
>>>> looks half-decent on a desktop or laptop. However, it looks dire on 
>>>> mobile devices and features get lost. Even if you just narrow the browser 
>>>> window on a desktop the top navbar items go walkies. Another problem is 
>>>> that drop-down menus on a mobile (for instance in this 
>>>> doc<http://www.fredriley.org.uk/callhull/celtic.html>) 
>>>> will drop down, but clicking on a dropdown item hits the menu beneath it. 
>>>> There are other problems with the site on mobiles, but basically it's not 
>>>> usable, and of course with mobiles being so popular this is a problem. 
>>>>
>>>> I have included the Bootstrap responsive CSS file in my pages and used 
>>>> a collapsing top navbar, but plainly I need to do more to make the thing 
>>>> usable on mobiles so I'd be grateful for tips and pointers. I have read 
>>>> the fine 
>>>> manual on responsive 
>>>> design<http://twitter.github.com/bootstrap/scaffolding.html#responsive>though
>>>>  that doesn't have much to say. I've used a famous search engine to 
>>>> look for "bootstrap responsive 
>>>> menus<https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=bootstrap+responsive+menus&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a>"
>>>>  
>>>> but without any conclusive results. There's an intriguing stackoverflow 
>>>> question<http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9150423/how-do-i-get-the-navigation-to-collapse-into-the-small-icon-for-mobile-devices>which
>>>>  might be useful but isn't a whole answer. 
>>>>
>>>> It's getting late in the night, my eyes are hurting, the neurons are 
>>>> turning off and the beer is calling, so I can't do any more searching now. 
>>>> Is there a guide somewhere to creating responsive menus in Bootstrap so 
>>>> that a page degrades gracefully on mobiles? I'm happy to RTFM if I can 
>>>> find 
>>>> TFM. And/or, are there any good exemplar sites I can emulate? 
>>>>
>>>> I am familiar with responsive design practice and media queries, though 
>>>> am far from an expert. 
>>>>
>>>> Cheers
>>>>
>>>> Fred
>>>>
>>>

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