Hi zac,

I dont think I said there is a decrease in usage just that it is developed by the community and as such may wane in popularity as another type of emergant mechanism takes it's place.

I would argue that retweet should stay roughly as is and not be directly codified into the core architecture of Twitter as is currently being proposed. I belive someone suggested a simple retweet of Id working the same way as replies and allowing you to enter your own comments along with it.

The fact that there are three new views and that you can't modify a retweet smack of over complexity and a destruction of what makes Twitter the way it is - it's simplicity and I would go as far to say that it will abruptly stop emergant behaviour around rt.

My other point generally is that this is very similar to the favoriting api apart from the injection into the users stream. I would love to see favoriting as a first class citizen.

A reply and a favorite would work in a similar way to the new rt api if favorites were more public.

The fact that retweet is part of the api and it means that if everyone doesn't flip over it means that the api isn't really working.

One of the important things for a general user, is that they see tweets from people they follow as they are placing value and trust in knowing something is coming from one of the people they are following - they are not bothered that an external site can use the information or that a developer can do some funky stuff with the data.

The other point is that is the problem the message stays intact - it only covers one portion of the case for retweeting.

The final point I was making originally is that some sections of the community were less than pleased that they were losing credit for the original tweet (I have seen some bonkers arguments about the source of tweets) and the the retweeter was getting credit and not the retweetee. The retweet api solves that problem, but it is in my opinion such an edge use case that it doesn't matter and copyright will protect you if you are actually that bothered about losing credit.

I am not a fan of this api, but I can be convinced :) and from what I have been told the api is unlikely to change too much.

Paul

On 18 Aug 2009, at 00:32, Zac Bowling <zbowl...@gmail.com> wrote:


I see value in a retweet API.

I disagree on your first point. Retweets have been around for some
time and still happen quite a bit. No decrease in usage. (its even
showing in sites like mashables retweet button and
http://iphone.tomtom.com/ (look at the share button)).

The only issue I see is that not everyone will flip over to the new
system immediately so it will not be fully adopted into the system and
inconsistent across clients for a while.

Point 3, no one says that you have to add support for it. However
unifying the retweet functionality drastically simplifies consumption
of retweets and outweighs any slight input requirements and an API
complexity required for it.

Point 4, I think you missing the point of how it would work
internally. As I understand it, the original 140 char message stays
intact.

Point 5, I'm confused with what point you are trying to get across.

Zac Bowling



On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 2:00 AM, Paul Kinlan<paul.kin...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Guys,
When I saw the original message stating that the retweet API I was about to say straight away that I despise the idea, but I thought I would refrain - give it some thought. I still despise the idea and I have to make it known the reasons why I think it is a very very bad idea and in the long term will negatively affect Twitter as a communications platform for the future.

You are embedding a user developed based meme into the Twitter
infrastructure - the popularity of RT itself may wane after some point. Users are very fickle, they change their minds, take a stand and don't listen to them - you know your platform and I am pretty sure you know that this is a bit of a hack. Let users use they system how they want, they will
evolve how they use it, constraints via an API

Twitter already has the capability to do smarter things
that completely negate the need for this API if they just change the current
API a little

Not every app will use RT API (especially legacy ones) and not every user will use it and as such Twitter and this list will get lots of questions why certain RT's are accessible by the retweet API. Again, RT's are a user
concept, and is very easy for them not use.
Whilst I use TweetDeck, I really dislike the amount of utility buttons it has and the amount of options it has - introducing another API for another function is tantamount to the same thing, you are asking us app developers to include more options in our apps. The great thing about a RT is that I
just hit reply and type RT at the front.
A big thing that people have requested is that quite often there is not any room in the very limited 140 characters to add comment to a retweet, this
doesn't seem to solve that problem.
Authority of a user based on a RT and credit to the originator is a
misnomer, no one actually needs it, very very few people care about - and when they do care about not getting the credit for the original tweet you have to ask why do they care? and why should we care? again it is still very easy to bypass. If you have a problem with it, as per the Twitter TOS you
are the copyright holder of your content.

My honest vote is not to pollute the Twitter API with a special RT
capability, rather:

Enhance Favorites and the favorites API, allow me to get a list of
everyone's favorites, allow me to see a list of people who favorited a tweet. If you look at the proposal for RT API it is doing something similar to this. The entire UX for Favorites makes a lot more sense than retweet - infact you can go as far as saying if you like something favorite (star) it,
if you really like your favorite - Forward (RT).

Allow me to get a list of a users favorites (similar to the "Likes" feed in FriendFeed) - this type of concept is so powerful, I can discover people who
share very similar likes.  I can also do Best of Day very easily

Enhance in_reply_to, allow me to see all tweets that reply to this tweet in
an object returned by the current api ( that is so I don't have to
keep re-querying the search API), further more allow me to request N levels deep of replies to a given tweet (yes this is similar to threaded comments)

So by enhancing Replies and favorites you can remove the need for special RT API because you can combine both parts of the API to get at the originator of a popular tweet, have notification and visual queues of popular tweets.
thus keeping the twitter API simple.
Paul - grumpy - Kinlan
http://twitter.com/PaulKinlan

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