I understand all of this, but an ISV does not want a potential lawsuit, they want a license agreement (or options) that are clear, and the current one is not. The wording suggests something quite unusual, and not at all what the industry expects, and is frankly ambiguous. There are some very rich MV apps out there that could provide world-class SaaS offerings. An ISV looking at options may not want to "tip their hand" even to a company like Rocket. If the license agreement leaves them unclear about the options, then they may move on in their search.
Note that not all MV vendors have a track record of being reasonable... This is based on actual inquiries from customers of ours. We like to be able to intelligently advise our customers, so I'm asking in order to remove the uncertainty. Inquiring minds want to know... :) So My understanding is this: It is the opinion of the community that Rocket would cooperate with an ISV, but it would require talking to them, and getting their buy-in. Thank you, -----Original Message----- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of George Land Sent: June-04-12 9:19 AM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] Universe/Unidata in the Cloud If you are connection pooling without connection pooling licenses then the most a court will do is rule that you need to buy those connection pool licenses, they aren't going to tell you that you need 2 million licenses. On 04/06/2012 15:58, "Wjhonson" <wjhon...@aol.com> wrote: > > > > Surely Robert you know that courts understand that wording can be ambiguous. > If you really think some court is going to tell you you need 2 million > licenses.... I think you're trying to make a case out of tissue > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Houben <robert.hou...@fwic.net> > To: U2 Users List <u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org> > Sent: Mon, Jun 4, 2012 7:35 am > Subject: Re: [U2] Universe/Unidata in the Cloud > > > As usual this group is a wealth of information. I think the "talk to Rocket" > is > the most useful thing. Our OLE DB driver uses Microsofts OLE DB > Resource Pooling (built into Windows) to pool. Our other products > provide built-in pooling. We've always told our U2 customers that they > need to get connection pooling licenses. The wording of the license > agreements suggests that whoever wrote it did not understand how most > applications use connection pooling. I was curious if this had been > cleared up. Unfortunately, if anything goes wrong, unless you have > something written to refer to, the actual wording of the license will > be used by the courts. > > Thank you, > > Robert Houben > IBM Certified Solution Advisor and Architect - Cloud Computing > Architecture Chief Technology Officer FusionWare Integration Corp. > p: 604-777-4254 x158 > f: 604-608-5544 > http://www.fwic.net > LinkedIn Twitter FaceBook > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org > [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] > On Behalf Of George Land > Sent: June-04-12 1:33 AM > To: U2 Users List > Subject: Re: [U2] Universe/Unidata in the Cloud > > I think that there is quite a bit of confusion on different terms. > > Firstly there is no problem in developing and hosting web based > applications using U2, many of the successful U2 applications today > are web based. But since > U2 is licensed per user what you can't do is simply have a small > license that connection pools - in other words runs a few processes > that listen for work from a large user base and services them. > > Instead if you connection pool using Rocket's or your own technology > then you need to buy connection pooling licenses. Whilst this pricing > model is different to Oracle and Microsoft it is also often less > expensive, it all depends on the configuration of the system being > implemented. > > But that's different from SaaS, connection pooling is about a > technical architecture whilst SaaS is really a pricing model. You can > adopt a SaaS pricing model on an in house application just as you can > adopt a conventional user licensing model on an application that is hosted/in > the cloud. > > If you are implementing a true SaaS pricing model, so the customers > pay per transaction or per some other metric, and you want to pay for > your U2 licenses on the same metric then you need to talk to Rocket or > your distributor if you are outside the US. It is almost impossible to have > an 'off the shelf' > pricing > model for this environment because the metrics you use and the > software you need to back it up will vary, particularly if the demand > is going to be seasonal. > But talk about it with whoever you buy from. > > George Land > APT Solutions Ltd > U2 UK Distributor > > > > On 03/06/2012 07:22, "Robert Houben" <robert.hou...@fwic.net> wrote: > >> I should clarify my question. What is the legality behind licensing >> a SaaS (or BPaaS) offering with a U2 system behind it? >> >> I believe at one point there were terms of use in the user license >> that made a SaaS implementation potentially impractical. >> >> BTW, believe it or not, providing Microsoft products in a SaaS >> environment is a violation of their license agreement, unless you get >> a special variant of their licenses (these raise the price >> significantly). This is little known, and to date Microsoft has not >> been aggressive in enforcing it, but that apparently might be about >> to change. >> >> U2, to my knowledge requires a special type of network license if you >> are going to provide pooled connections of any sort (e.g. through a >> web server.) The special terms to look up seem to be "Connection >> Pooling" and "Concurrent User". My initial read of the section >> describing these is that if I have potentially 2 million different >> users who may use my service through web-based connection pooling >> through the term of the license, (even if not concurrently), I must >> have licenses enough (2 million of them) to support this. I copy the >> block of text at the bottom of this message from a copy of the >> license agreement that I have (possibly out of date - that's part of the >> question). > Their definition of Concurrent seems a bit odd... >> >> (BTW, I agree: I would *never* use an unprotected telnet session over >> the internet. I would be inclined to have the U2 server hiding >> behind a good solid commercial grade web server.) >> >> "Connection Pooling (CP): Licensee is not authorized to enable or >> engage in Connection Pooling unless Licensee is able to count and >> acquire required Concurrent Session or Concurrent User entitlements >> covering all unique individuals or single, unique instances of a >> software application that might process transactions using the >> Program. CP session entitlements [ which would cover use by any and >> all unique individuals or unique single instances of software >> programs over a single logical open, persistent connection ] are >> optionally available for purchase for use with the Workgroup Edition, >> but are limited to a maximum of two (2) CP sessions. Enterprise >> Edition is offered with two (2) initial Rocket CP sessions with >> optional additional CP > session entitlements available for purchase." >> >> "... that might process transactions..." This would effectively blow >> any SaaS or BPaaS option out of the water for a U2 based application. >> I may be misunderstanding the above, or there may be a different >> license available somewhere, hence my question. >> >> Thank you, >> >> Robert Houben >> IBM Certified Solution Advisor and Architect - Cloud Computing >> Architecture Chief Technology Officer FusionWare Integration Corp. >> p: 604-777-4254 x158 >> f: 604-608-5544 >> http://www.fwic.net >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org >> [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Kevin King >> Sent: June-02-12 4:04 PM >> To: U2 Users List >> Subject: Re: [U2] Universe/Unidata in the Cloud >> >> Just so I'm clear... what exactly would be different about such a license? >> Seems to me the typical licensing terms would work just fine, as >> long as you have enough seats to handle the traffic. I would, >> however, be concerned about opening up the telnet port on a cloud >> architecture. >> >> On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 6:05 PM, Robert Houben <robert.hou...@fwic.net>wrote: >> >>> Does Rocket license Universe or Unidata for use in the cloud? >>> >>> Robert Houben >>> IBM Certified Solution Advisor and Architect - Cloud Computing >>> Architecture Chief Technology Officer FusionWare Integration Corp. >>> p: 604-777-4254 x158 >>> f: 604-608-5544 >>> http://www.fwic.net<http://www.fwic.net/> >>> LinkedIn < >>> http://www.linkedin.com/company/fusionware-integration-corp.?trk=fc_ >>> b >>> a >>> dge> Twitter <http://www.twitter.com/fusionwareint> FaceBook< >>> http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/New-Westminster-BC/FusionWare-Integ >>> r >>> a >>> tion-Corp/115116258510923 >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> U2-Users mailing list >>> U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org >>> http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> U2-Users mailing list >> U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org >> http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users >> _______________________________________________ >> U2-Users mailing list >> U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org >> http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > > _______________________________________________ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > _______________________________________________ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > > > _______________________________________________ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users _______________________________________________ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users _______________________________________________ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
