And yes, I agree, things are getting better. I never said they weren't,
nor have I said that they were bad. My primary point is that we're
seeing *lots* of companies backing QT for mobile accessibility,
Canonical being the latest of those, and we aren't seeing any commitment
by those companies to accessibility. I'm saying that, for me,
Windows-based AT is starting to look more and more appealing because I
do have increased access. And, for the record, I am testing out the more
recent access tech than is available in Ubuntu packages, thanks for
asking. But if companies are going to start making money off of Linux,
and are going to urge consumers to jump ship from their
Android/Windows/IOS devices, the time to advocate for accessibility
*isn't* after said products have taken off. It's now. "Good enough for
me" isn't always good enough for everyone. There are plenty for whom a
Linux text console is good enough. It'd really suck if those people
blasted those of you who used GNOME/X because Lynx wasn't acceptable for
you. So when some of us come along and say "sure, things are great and
are getting better, but these other solutions are starting to look a lot
more compelling to us," that has nothing to do with *your* needs or
*your* choice to run what *you* want.
And with that I'm stepping back from this thread, and will not read
public or private responses. Either the community steps up and starts
speaking out strongly for Canonical to up its accessibility game, or it
doesn't.
On 01/07/2013 03:04 PM, kendell clark wrote:
I will say this though. Orca is *much* better than it was even a year
ago. I started using linux when it was at v 3.2.0 and it has improved
a lot, especially in the area of web browsing. Is it perfect? no but
what access tech is, especially computers where a simple coding error
can render an app inaccessible. If I must be honest, I think and
probably always will taht without a money insentive, or a threat of
legal action, most devs including companies put little or no thought
towards accessibility. Yes we have the orca devs, and we have vinux,
but they can't do everything and without cooperation from the major
desktops gnome, xfce, etc they can't solve the problem on their own.
Bug reports seem to sit unsolved for months, even years, while sighted
problems get fixed fairly quickly. If there was a catastrophic bug
that caused the screens on all desktops and laptops to go off, and
wouldn't come back on, there would be a massive outcry. If the
response from the dev community was meh, we'll fix it sooner or later,
people would flock to windows, or mac, or whatever offered the fix.
That's how accessiblity is imo. YOu can flame me if you like but
that's my opinion. I love linux and I love orca and firefox but I'm
trying to be realistic and I just don't think that many people care
about a11y. There are people, but not nearly enough, imo. I can't
code, and documentation on accessiility is sparse or non existent,
making it difficult for anyone not familiar with gnome to dive in.
On 01/07/2013 02:51 PM, kendell clark wrote:
ouch. Pms, maybe?
On 01/07/2013 02:49 PM, Nolan Darilek wrote:
First, please confirm which versions of Firefox and Orca I am using.
Since you know so much about my environment, I look forward to your
abilities in this regard.
Second, please justify why the fact that a given choice works for
you is a good reason why that choice must be for everyone. I at no
point said that you must use Windows or criticized your choices, so
perhaps it would be wise not to criticize mine, or to criticize me
when I claim that Windows suits my needs better.
If you're happy with what you have now, fine. Be happy with it. But
do step aside when others aren't and try to make things better.
We're not trying to put *you* down or call *you* out, after all.
On 01/07/2013 02:14 PM, Kyle wrote:
I do lots of things with my computer using Linux. Granted, my
primary distro is Arch Linux rather than Ubuntu, so I get all the
latest stuff as soon as it's released, but I don't use Windows,
except the very rare times when I need to print something, because
I have yet to purchase a good printer, at which times I use a
left-over XP install on a 10-year-old box. I browse many websites
on my Linux box using Orca and Firefox, and I use no other browser,
not even Chrome+ChromeVox. I have nothing against trying different
things, but I tend to stick with what works, and Firefox+Orca works
quite well here. I have yet to find a website that is impossible to
navigate, with the exception of Flash content, which is more miss
than hit on any browser in any OS. Yes, the times I still have to
use Windows for printing, I find NVDA to be quite usable, but if
making Firefox+Orca more usable for others means converting to a
clunky virtual buffer system that doesn't handle dynamic content
well, and cludgy work-arounds like lists of links, then I'll hold
off on the downgr ... I mean upgrade, thank you very much.
Yes, Firefox and the way Orca works with it could be improved, and
this is happening. But saying that you'd rather use Windows for web
browsing because you haven't even tried the latest versions of
either Orca or Firefox is utterly ridiculous. So before spouting
and spitting about how accessibility needs to improve, first start
by trying the latest versions of things, so that you can file more
informed bug reports based on the newest, dare I say shiniest,
technology.
~Kyle
http://kyle.tk/
--
Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list
[email protected]
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility
