>> Not only are the buttons on the left, but they're not even correct for >> "buttons on the left"! >> >> What OS X has: close, minimize, maximize : menu >> What we have: maximize, minimize, close : menu >> What Windows has: menu : minimize, maximize, close >> >> As it is right now, the theme will break muscle memory for everyone >> coming from Windows, OS X, and even all other Linux distros (including >> previous versions of Ubuntu)! >> >> > Is breaking muscle memory that important? You've just illustrated that > Windows and OSX are different from one another anyway. Mac OS doesn't even > have a separate menu on each window and yet people still seem perfectly > able > to switch from Windows to OSX. Perhaps we should concentrate on making the > design attractive, unique AND useful without worrying so much about > providing maximum correlation with what has been done before. > > While it's important to look at other systems for context, we should not > be > a slave to what the others are doing. Doing that I think we will always be > a > step or two behind. > > Of course all of this design stuff depends on who Ubuntu is being aimed > at. > Is that documented somewhere?
When using OS X, as I have briefly, it is rare that those buttons, close, minimize and maximize are ever used. Closing on OS X keeps the program running so most either do command Q or go to "quit"... muscle memory isn't a big issue. i like things on the upper right. On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 8:36 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > Send ubuntu-art mailing list submissions to > [email protected] > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > [email protected] > > You can reach the person managing the list at > [email protected] > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of ubuntu-art digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Metacity Button Order Changed (Merk) > 2. Re: Ubuntu Jersey's (Trey Ethridge) > 3. Re: Metacity Button Order Changed (SorinN) > 4. Re: Metacity Button Order Changed (Nate Wiebe) > 5. Re: Metacity Button Order Changed (Dylan McCall) > 6. Re: Metacity Button Order Changed (Chris Tooley) > 7. Re: Metacity Button Order Changed (David Zondlo) > 8. MeMenu icon, why not Humanity style? (Hajo E.) > 9. Thanks (John Baer) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 11:49:58 -0800 (PST) > From: Merk <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [ubuntu-art] Metacity Button Order Changed > To: [email protected] > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > > Fine we shouldn't do something just because OS X or Windows does it. > > But what was the research done to show that left aligned, maximize, > minimize, close was the best option? > > Without explanation, it just feels arbitrary and change for the sake of > change. > > > Richard Querin wrote: > > > > On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 11:53 AM, Dana Goyette <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > >> Not only are the buttons on the left, but they're not even correct for > >> "buttons on the left"! > >> > >> What OS X has: close, minimize, maximize : menu > >> What we have: maximize, minimize, close : menu > >> What Windows has: menu : minimize, maximize, close > >> > >> As it is right now, the theme will break muscle memory for everyone > >> coming from Windows, OS X, and even all other Linux distros (including > >> previous versions of Ubuntu)! > >> > >> > > Is breaking muscle memory that important? You've just illustrated that > > Windows and OSX are different from one another anyway. Mac OS doesn't > even > > have a separate menu on each window and yet people still seem perfectly > > able > > to switch from Windows to OSX. Perhaps we should concentrate on making > the > > design attractive, unique AND useful without worrying so much about > > providing maximum correlation with what has been done before. > > > > While it's important to look at other systems for context, we should not > > be > > a slave to what the others are doing. Doing that I think we will always > be > > a > > step or two behind. > > > > Of course all of this design stuff depends on who Ubuntu is being aimed > > at. > > Is that documented somewhere? > > > > -- > > ubuntu-art mailing list > > [email protected] > > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art > > > > > > -- > View this message in context: > http://old.nabble.com/Metacity-Button-Order-Changed-tp27789013p27798420.html > Sent from the ubuntu-art mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 15:24:08 -0500 > From: Trey Ethridge <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [ubuntu-art] Ubuntu Jersey's > To: Discussion on Ubuntu artwork <[email protected]> > Message-ID: > <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > I can follow up with them to see if they will accept standard SVG files. > The first ride is June 5th. They require 6 to 8 weeks to deliver. Eight > weeks from June 5th is around the 11th of April. > > I would like to have the design done by the beginning of April if I had to > set a reasonably comfortable deadline. The more time we have the better. > I'll still need to sell enough of the jersey's to do the minimum order. > I'm sure a lot of people would want to see the jersey before they agree to > buy one. > > Trey > > On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 2:17 PM, Thorsten Wilms <[email protected]> wrote: > > > On Fri, 2010-03-05 at 13:53 -0500, Trey Ethridge wrote: > > > > > I may be wrong about SVG, but that is basically what Illustrator > > > produces. > > > > Illustrator has its own .ai format. Inkscape should be able to save > > to .ai, but my build of it refuses to do so, currently. Need to solve > > that. > > > > > > > Thanks for the feed back. Are you interested? > > > > Interested yes, but not entirely sure, yet. This will have to wait until > > the new colors are pinned down and a vector file of the new logo is > > available, anyway. > > > > Guess I will have to do it because not helping you in this cause would > > be sad and there is nobody else on this list capable of getting it > > right ;p (would love to be proven wrong). > > > > Can you set a deadline, going from the first race backwards, getting > > jerseys delivered/sold, 6 weeks production (or what it was) plus a > > buffer for whatever might go wrong? > > > > > > -- > > Thorsten Wilms > > > > thorwil's design for free software: > > http://thorwil.wordpress.com/ > > > > > > -- > > ubuntu-art mailing list > > [email protected] > > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/attachments/20100305/e187ba42/attachment-0001.htm > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 22:48:28 +0200 > From: SorinN <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [ubuntu-art] Metacity Button Order Changed > To: Discussion on Ubuntu artwork <[email protected]> > Cc: John Baer <[email protected]> > Message-ID: > <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Yes. What was to happen was happened :( > > Very much amateurism on this change (right corner to left corner for > close / minimize / maximize buttons). Yes amateurism - you hear well > my friends. A good Human Machine Interaction engineer will not do such > a move. There are laws and principles. Some Unix friends told me that > they have a word "do not destroy well established things". I bet they > know what they say they are Oracle engineers with almost 30 years of > Unix / Linux behind. > > 2 main reasons which prove the amateurism : > > - this move will broke what was good and acknowledged by 90 % or more PC > users > as `de facto ` (and I don't hear complains about that). > > - the left side position of those buttons will agglomerate > (unnecessary) the space where a normal user search for menu bar and > for 1'st level functions. > Those buttons has a secondary scope and are rarely used, the right > corner was a good place for this group according usability standards > (the fact that MAC use those buttons on the left means nothing they > are maybe 5%, rest of the world just close their windows from the > right corner). > > Indeed, everyone know that Gnome need some facial changes but hey - > why they start to kill the piano ? ..just because ? > > Well it's clear that the team behind that move does not contain > professionals. If this was just a proposal - there's no excuse for > that. A single word >> amateurism. > > Shuttleworth deserver better peoples because his movement is a crucial > movement of the modern history. I think he believe in peoples too much > and that's that's the point where some peoples can see a profit. Too > bad. > > 2010/3/5 Kenneth Wimer <[email protected]>: > > On Friday 05 March 2010 01:43:43 am John Baer wrote: > >> I noticed in today's upgrade (03/04) the order of the metacity's > >> "minimize" and "maximized" buttons changed. > >> > >> In the old metacity the order was; minimize, maximize, close > >> > >> In the new metacity the order is: maximize, minimize, close > >> > >> Is this the desired effect or is this a bug? > > > > This is the desired effect. > > > > -- > > Ken > > > > -- > > ubuntu-art mailing list > > [email protected] > > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art > > > > > > -- > Nemes Ioan Sorin > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 17:21:42 -0400 > From: Nate Wiebe <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [ubuntu-art] Metacity Button Order Changed > To: <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > At first I was very sceptical about having them on the right but I decided > to give it a shot. After using the buttons on the left for a few hours, it > feels very natural since I am usually focused on the left hand side of the > screen to begin with, so it makes sense why the side was changed. > > I am currently using "maximize,minimize,close:menu" and I have to say that > I really appreciate this change. > > As for other themes, I think it all depends on what the overall feel is to > determine which side they should be located on, but I think they should all > be able to adapt. > > --Nate Wiebe > > _________________________________________________________________ > IM on the go with Messenger on your phone > http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9712960 > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/attachments/20100305/025b15ac/attachment-0001.htm > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 13:28:32 -0800 > From: Dylan McCall <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [ubuntu-art] Metacity Button Order Changed > To: Discussion on Ubuntu artwork <[email protected]> > Message-ID: > <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > On 3/5/10, Nate Wiebe <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > At first I was very sceptical about having them on the right but I > decided > > to give it a shot. After using the buttons on the left for a few hours, > it > > feels very natural since I am usually focused on the left hand side of > the > > screen to begin with, so it makes sense why the side was changed. > > > > I am currently using "maximize,minimize,close:menu" and I have to say > that I > > really appreciate this change. > > > > As for other themes, I think it all depends on what the overall feel is > to > > determine which side they should be located on, but I think they should > all > > be able to adapt. > > > > --Nate Wiebe > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > IM on the go with Messenger on your phone > > http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9712960 > > Is there a firm rationale behind the trough in Radiance and Ambiance's > Metacity theme? For me, it adds a lot of visual noise and makes it > impossible to change the order of the buttons. (People firmly set in > their ways won't be pleased). Removing the trough would solve that, so > the new default would be slightly less of a problem since it could at > least be changed as end users wish. > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 13:29:28 -0800 > From: Chris Tooley <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [ubuntu-art] Metacity Button Order Changed > To: Discussion on Ubuntu artwork <[email protected]> > Message-ID: > <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 12:48 PM, SorinN <[email protected]> wrote: > > Yes. What was to happen was happened :( > > > > Very much amateurism on this change (right corner to left corner for > > close / minimize / maximize buttons). Yes amateurism - you hear well > > my friends. A good Human Machine Interaction engineer will not do such > > a move. There are laws and principles. Some Unix friends told me that > > they have a word ?"do not destroy well established things". I bet they > > know what they say they are Oracle engineers with almost 30 years of > > Unix / Linux behind. > > > > 2 main reasons which prove the amateurism : > > > > - this move will broke what was good and acknowledged by 90 % ?or more PC > users > > as ?`de facto ` (and I don't hear complains about that). > > > > - the left side position of those buttons will agglomerate > > (unnecessary) the space where a normal user search for menu bar and > > for 1'st level functions. > > Those buttons has a secondary scope and are rarely used, the right > > corner was a good place for this group according usability standards > > (the fact that MAC use those buttons on the left means nothing they > > are maybe 5%, rest of the world just close their windows from the > > right corner). > > > > Indeed, everyone know that Gnome need some facial changes but hey - > > why they start to kill the piano ? ..just because ? > > > > Well it's clear that the team behind that move does not contain > > professionals. If this was just a proposal - there's no excuse for > > that. A single word >> amateurism. > > > > Shuttleworth deserver better peoples because his movement is a crucial > > movement of the modern history. I think he believe in peoples too much > > and that's that's the point where some peoples can see a profit. Too > > bad. > > I think we need to keep in mind that they have just released a small > amount of information about the new shift in look, and I would liken > this to a beta release. I think what they're doing is testing the > waters for certain ideas to see what the reaction of the users will > be. > > Personally, it doesn't matter to me which side the controls are on, > but just due to the outcry of detractors I agree that it would be > harmful if they didn't change it back to the right hand side of the > window. > > Interestingly related: > http://blog.daviey.com/blogroll/anything-but-the-buttons.html > > -Chris > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 18:59:40 -0600 > From: David Zondlo <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [ubuntu-art] Metacity Button Order Changed > To: Discussion on Ubuntu artwork <[email protected]> > Message-ID: > <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > While I am super used to buttons-on-right I think I'm the only one who is > digging the change to the left. Google chrome is still messing with me > since > its not decorated by metacity. Might have to go back to FF :P > > ~Dave > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/attachments/20100305/0fc52f50/attachment-0001.htm > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2010 02:38:33 +0100 > From: "Hajo E." <[email protected]> > Subject: [ubuntu-art] MeMenu icon, why not Humanity style? > To: Discussion on Ubuntu artwork <[email protected]> > Message-ID: > <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Hi, > > Having a look at the default look of lucid, you can see all icons in > upper gnome-panel to be flat, monochromatic, mac-like and simple > *except* the MeMenu "bubble". Is this a conscious decision or will it > be changed to have a consistent set of symbols up there? > > Best regards, > Hajo > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 21:36:29 -0500 > From: John Baer <[email protected]> > Subject: [ubuntu-art] Thanks > To: [email protected] > Message-ID: > <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > I just updated my Lucid desktop and a new community-themes package. > > I see the Impression buttons are now on the left. I was thinking of doing > the same thing. > > Thanks for the help! > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/attachments/20100305/ada00915/attachment.htm > > ------------------------------ > > -- > ubuntu-art mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art > > > End of ubuntu-art Digest, Vol 57, Issue 8 > ***************************************** > -- Tim Weaver 2010
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