On 21-12-12 23:48, Samuel Derous wrote:
Personally, while Martijn could have weighed his words more, I too
agree that this isn't much more than spam, and I too agree that it
doesn't matter if "silent computers" has done more or less than anyone
else for ubuntu-be... I get hundreds of this kind of mail in my spam
box... Fact is that in the same way, one could answer: "Go ask a
fnack-employee, he would know how to help you any further." But that
wasn't the question. Fact is that in that case much more than give
preferences for any shop where you can buy smartphones, isn't delivered.
Greetz,
Samuel
Fair enough... it certainly is on the edge. But if Fnac would indeed
offer support on making this work under Ubuntu... it would be a valid
post for his list (we had postings from people telling Dell was going to
sell Ubuntu machines, nobody complained back then). So the bottom line
is that you can't blow your own horn? If somebody else would have said:
"Yeah, I went to Silent Computers, and they helped me out just great!"
It wouldn't have been spam... but if they are proud in telling
themselves... it is spam?
TODO: People considering spam an important issue on Ubuntu-be: write a
clear code of conduct on the wiki - have it tweaked by notifying it on
the mailinglist. If there's a consensus - that's great! People will
stick to it, and you'll be able to refer to it. So all that's needed, is
a decent wiki page on this topic. :) I won't make the effort, because I
think it's no priority. I will read it though and comment on it, if I
think it omits other fields (like netiquette) or starts to smell like
censorship...
Grtz,
Jurgen.
Op vrijdag 21 december 2012 19:58:02 schreef Jurgen Gaeremyn:
Martijn,
there's something else too that people should be fighting in mailing
lists... and that's trolls. People posting to a mailinglist without
contributing to the topic, but in the contrary fueling an (off topic)
discussion is considered trolling in my eyes.
Secondly: (not talking about this specific situation here) No matter
how rude, stupid or wrong a person is... you *never* lower yourself to
that same level. This will never solve anything.
As I already said... the given response was defenitely not spam. It
was a reply to a question asked. It was on topic. It might not have
been as well documented as I hoped it to be... but it was not at all
*unsollicited* since I asked about this topic. In the worst case, one
could call it a shameless plug. I know I have made publicity for
events of our hackerspace in the past too... (ouch, now I'm spamming,
I'm advertising our hackerspace)
It's human to make mistakes... this counts for Valèri (Odds are he
won't be so stupid to help anyone on the mailinglist anymore) but also
for you. Be a big person, and learn from your mistakes. If you feel
someone is not abiding the rules of the mailinglist (but has a good
history), be polite and explain this person what mistake (s)he made.
This opens a door for the (so called) offender to apologize if he
agrees, or defend himself if he disagrees.
Oh yeah... and on an ironic sidenote... if this were a real spammer -
he would thank us for sending out a gazillion more messages with his
company name in the title.
Grtz,
and have an excellent Christmas holiday...
Jurgen.
On 21-12-12 19:08, martijn cielen wrote:
Hold your horses Wouter. You clearly completely misunderstood my
message. I do give a *** about the work any and all of you do. I
thought it was obvious I was talking about spammers. To clarify again:
when someone spams the ML, I don't give a *** about what they do for
the community. It's spam, and spam should be fought by any means.
On Friday, 21 December 2012, Wouter Vandenneucker wrote:
I personally felt offended by the sheer lack of Ubuntu/humanity in the
responses that followed.
If one states that he didn't "give a *** what anyone (corporate or
individual) has done for anyone/anything" than that means he doesn't
care about any of the work I and others have put in to it. I find that
offensive and take it as a slap in the face.
It shows of a lack of empathy, dignity and respect to others who might
or might not put more time and effort to things than that person him-
or herself. Although I would have taken it this way regardless of whom
it came from, I feel even more offended because it came from somebody
who signed the code of conduct! A code that starts with following words:
Ubuntu is about showing humanity to one another: the word itself
captures the spirit of being human.
A code that explicitly states that at all times you should be
respectful. One that states that disagreement is no excuse for poor
manners. One that states that you have to take responsibility for your
words and actions.
I find myself today, struggling to keep believing that any work done
here is appreciated or even considered to be of any value.
And with this rant and words that might mean more to some than others
I leave you
Have a nice day all, who knows it might be our last.
Regards
Wouter Vandenneucker
2012/12/21 Jurgen Gaeremyn <[email protected]>
Well,
I didn't consider the initial answer as spam - I did take it as a
rather weak answer in the sense that there's no further help than only
offering to make a sale.
I was hoping to get feedback in the sense of: "I'm using *blabla* on
my computer and *bla* on my Android device and it all works fine doing
these steps: *blablabla*" Or even: "Buy this device: *SomeDevice*, it
contains drivers for ubuntu" In extremis it could be: "let me google
this for you: *keyword 1* *keyword 2* ..."
Obviously, if the solution you're offering is something you developed
in-house, and thus only offer to your customers... that's also an
option, and then the shop is he place to be.
Well... but as disappointing as the answer was... the answer "spammer"
didn't help me any further either.
Grtz,
Jurgen
On 21-12-12 13:25, tom verlinden wrote:
Is there a "code of conduct", guidelines, on how to approach things
like this?
What i'm trying to say is, what if you know a good link/shop/space
that can help you?
What would be the appropriate action to take?
Needless to say i too disagree with spamming any list, but it's
something i was asking myself just yet...
2012/12/21 martijn cielen <[email protected]>
Jan,
frankly I don't give a *** what anyone (corporate or individual) has
done for anyone/anything when they abuse a mailing list to spam.
When I send messages to this list, I use my personal address, and not
my commercial one. Ideally, others should do the same.
Martijn
On Thu, Dec 20, 2012 at 11:22 PM, Jan Bongaerts <[email protected]>
wrote:
Easy now!
Silent Computers has done more for ubuntu-be than most.
2012/12/20 martijn cielen <[email protected]>
spammer
2012/12/20 Lesia Valèri <[email protected]>
Hi,
daar is de Silent computers' shop voor!
Stuurt die dame naar ons toe, wij zullen wel beste oplossing voor vi
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