Hi Daniel!

First, I never intended to say that you would want to harm any
project/translation by purpose. But as you can see from the reply of 9
translation teams, this is a real practical problem. And Ubuntu is the
only of various distributions that causes such problems though it's of
course also the most widespread one.

In detail:

- This one is true, but not really a problem of Launchpad as a tool.
It's a communication problem: translations in Launchpad are sometimes
too easy, and potential translators and team coordinators don't bother
with actually establishing policies. Until Launchpad gets AI, it's just
a PO editing tool like any other. We've got privilege system in place,
but problems arise if people misuse it (as they have done numerous
times, allowing everybody into translation teams).

Please fix this ASAP (and the hard way as we dicussed yesterday on IRC).
And it would also be nice to point people to the upstream teams because
otherwise they will never know about their existance. It's usually
better to help upstream in case you don't do Ubuntu-specific work.
People SHOULD know that.

- Also, there's another reason. Many different localisation projects for
the same language have differing terminology. For example, I know
Serbian GNOME and KDE translation teams have different terminology. I
see no reason for Ubuntu Serbian l10n team not to unify these
translations and make them consistent accross Ubuntu. Yeah, I'd prefer
it if they've used GNOME translations because that's where I am coming
from, but I'd still prefer consistency over insisting on the "Serbian
GNOME terminology". So, one important point here is that this is not a
translation of GNOME, it is a translation of GNOME in Ubuntu, which is
not exactly the same piece of software (only slightly changed, compared
to relative size of GNOME, but changed nevertheless).

This is something the different translation teams should take care of.
Anyway, I don't like that Ubuntu makes it's own policies here. Upstream
project have usually though very long about certain terms and if there
is a difference between the KDE and the GNOME policy it should be
resolved between those and not in Ubuntu.

- So, we're confronted with two options: consider upstream translation
teams the only trustworthy source of translations (basically disallowing
the option of doing any creative translation work in Launchpad, across
entire sphere of Ubuntu software), or improve the trustworthiness of
current Launchpad translators. We have so far decided to work on
enabling better translator education in Launchpad through review and
changed-in-LP workflows. However, Launchpad itself still doesn't provide
enough means of communications between translators, and there's nothing
that can replace communication. Launchpad is still a tool, and as such,
it can't replace the communication needed between people. As a proof of
that, I can point you at teams which are handling this process fairly
well.

I know that there are teams where this works well (hardly heard of
problems in gnome-de for example). Anyway, no to trust upstream
translations is very unfair. I doubt that there are many places where
the upstream translation of a string is significantly worse than the
launchpad one. So, I still do not understand why you would need any
"creative translation work". It's good to extend exisiting translations
but no use to change them other than in an Ubuntu-specific way.

- Also, I am pretty confident that an easy fix for many translation
teams would be a simple option: make packaged translations automatically
override LP-provided translations. However, that might also remove bug
fixes, so it's hard to enable across entire Launchpad right now. I know
you want bug fixes to happen upstream first, but you should take into
account that upstream bug fixes don't get rolled out into tarballs
immediately (or, just tell me how many times have you missed a GNOME
release deadline by a day? :), and Ubuntu should have the power to fix
these bugs for their own GNOME packages.

Well, that's your problem usually. GNOME does lots of stable releases to
bring things inside tarballs but Ubuntu is sometimes slow to package
those. And you have so many patches in your packages that it wouldn't
harm if you push some upstream (svn) changes downstream.

- Upstream teams get bug reports about strings that are correct upstream but 
have been changed in launchpad
I know it's not yet trivial for upstreams to find out about problems in 
translations as fixed in Ubuntu, but your Ubuntu teams should have it much 
easier. We've recently added a listing of changed-in-LP messages on the global 
language overview page. Check eg. 
https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+lang/de and you'll notice 
the column "Changed" which contains the number of messages changed in LP from a 
package (usually upstream, but technically not, which is why we can't detect 
Ubuntu-only strings), and you can click on a number to see all of them.

I think you did not understand me. It's not the problem that you get
bugs on our faults but GNOME gets bugs about Launchpad translation
errors that either don't exist upstream or have been fixed already. It's
impossible for an upstream translator to know the Launchpad translation
and a such he will ingore/close the report and will most likely be too
lazy to file it in lauchpad.

Of course I know that you as Canonical have a big interest in bringing
Launchpad forward and all your blueprints look very nice. Anyway, they
do not solve the current problems that Launchpad first created. It is
the wrong way to first create new problems and then to say that those
will be fixed "one day".  So many people would really prefer if you do
your homework and better lock translations in between even if it will
mean that Launchpad won't be of much use for GNOME translation for some
period of time. At least that would force you to put effort in fixing
these things. (Also read Olav's post on gnome-i18n).

-- 
Lock GNOME upstream translations
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/188907
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