Hi Jason,
On 07/09/2010 02:50 PM, Jason Cook wrote:
The reason it may be a problem is that often when I don't have an
internet connection, I need to know how to use an applications that
have not yet learned how to use or am experiencing problems with.
Though most are self-explanatory, some app are more complex and, when
using this method, I can't use them or solve the problem until I get
and internet connection. As I previously mention, if there was an easy
way to download the documentation for offline use, then this method
would work. Until there is a way to access the internet from
*everywhere* this, at least in my opinion, this won't work.
Your point is significant.
Let's differentiate between application help and Ubuntu Help. That is,
many applications (gnome ones, for example) already deliver their help
(and translations of it) on disk through packages. I don't see why this
shouldn't continue (for some time anyway). Thus, your use case is
addressed.
In the meanwhile, there could be a wonderful and fun Ubuntu help web
portal that starts to pick up the job of non-app-specific help.
Cheers,
Kyle
On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 12:01 PM, Kyle Nitzsche
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Hi Jason?
On 07/09/2010 06:32 AM, Jason Cook wrote:
I think that a cloud based solution is a great idea. But for
mobile users this would a problem.
Why do you think a web/cloud-based help system a problem for
mobile users?
One possible solution would be to include *all* of the content
that is available online in a repository that *gets updated
when the contents on the web changes*. Then is is not just
static and can be redesigned. If the downloaded format was
HTML, then this would not require another application. I think
that a cloud based solution would be great, but there needs to
be a easy way to download all of that content locally.
On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 8:30 PM, Jim Campbell
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
<mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>>
wrote:
Hi All,
On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 6:34 PM, Shaun McCance
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
<mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>> wrote:
On Wed, 2010-07-07 at 17:13 -0400, Kyle Nitzsche wrote:
>
http://mdzlog.alcor.net/2010/07/06/weve-packaged-all-of-the-free-software-what-now/
[snip]
> With which I agree in general.
> * on-disk docs might effectively be limited to only what is
necessary to
> get started and get connected to the web (localized, of course).
> * run-time help links might instead display appropriate
content in the
> browser.
[snip]
> Naturally, there are disadvantages, such as:
> * no internet connection = no help (beyond the minimal
on-disk help)
> * umm.. any other disadvantages?
A greater disconnect between applications and their
help. Our
traditional help consists of islands of documents that are
largely separate from the applications they document.
One of my current projects is a library for deeply
integrating
help into applications. (It was Phil's idea, although
he might
not realize it.) Imagine help buttons and menus
automatically
populated with the most relevant content, searching for
help
directly in the help menu, and on-board help blurbs
that come
directly from the help and link into it for more
information.
These are the sorts of things that user assistance
professionals
are dreaming about, but most help tool vendors are
still stuck
in the 90s. We have the opportunity to blaze new trails
with
free software. Stop playing catchup and make UA
professionals'
mouths water.
It's possible to have this sort of deep integration
with cloud
content, but it's harder. I have no doubt that help
will move
more and more to the web, but then, applications will
move more
and more to the web as well. If we jump there too early
without
thinking about how to really improve things, we'll lock
ourselves
into an outdated and inadequate help model.
--
Shaun
To be fair, I don' t think that the two approaches to help
have to
be mutually exclusive. What Shaun is talking about is awesome
application-level help. There will still be a need for
people who
want that help content in different formats, whether they be
manuals or help that is searchable on the web.
As for on-disk vs. cloud/web-based content, I think having more
web-based content is necessary now. We would still have the
option of keeping on-disk help relatively light. For
example, we
could not include (as many?) screenshots in on-disk help as
would
be available in other formats.
Also, as far as I know, Ubuntu is one of the few distros that
ships a good amount of on-disk help at all. Fedora just ships
their release notes in the main install, and OpenSUSE (I think)
just features some sort of getting-started guide. Both
have their
other help available for download on their websites. Does
anybody
know how RHEL and SUSE have theirs set up? Do they have much
"distro-specific" help in the base install?
As for Apple and Microsoft, they may have a good amount of
on-disk
help, but they don't concern themselves with fitting all of
their
OS and applications onto a 700mb CDROM. For base installs they
have DVD's and having some of their content accessible via
the web.
I bring up those comparisons not necessarily to say, "Oh,
they do
it that way, so that way is the best way," or to say, "Just
do it
however X group / company is doing it," but to set realistic
expectations for us. I want us to be mindful of bandwidth /
offline-access issues like the ones that Phil W. brought
up, and
want to give room for Shaun's application-level help ideas,
but a
better web-presence for Ubuntu help would also be a big
step forward.
Jim
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