Hi Pablo, Thank you for such an in depth explanation. I think your notes will help me a lot. I will try tonight after work and let you know for certain.
Sincerely, Neil On Mon, 2010-07-19 at 15:04 +0200, Pablo wrote: > Neil Jensen escribió: > > Hi All, > > > > Along this subject line, I too have been struggling with audio > > connections for jack. > > In particular I want to either use Ardour, QTrackter, Muse, and > > Rosegarden. > > > > When I connect my midi keyboard,m-audio 88es, to these applications I > > can get them to play and imported audio file track, but can't get it to > > record AND play my keyboard. > > > > I do have Qsynth and ZyAddSubFx hooked up to jack to get sound from the > > keyboard just to use it. > > > > Can anyone either make a dummy proof diagram or flow chart on how to get > > this running? > > > > I would be so grateful. > > > Hi Neil, It is hard to make a diagram but I will try to explain and put > some basic workflow examples. > I think you are almost there. Please, forgive my poor English, I > sometimes lack the words. > I hope someone can explain it better than me. > > Qsynth and Zynadd are software synths. You connect midi to them and they > output audio. If you connect your midi keyboard to their > inputs in the alsa tab and you connect synths' audio outputs to > "system_playbacks" in the audio tab, > you have sound when you play the midi keyboard. So far so good. > > Now, Rosegarden, Qtractor and Muse have midi tracks (audio tracks as > well but let's focus on midi > first). So, they are midi sequencers. You can write midi notes on them > with keyboard/mouse, in matrix or notation editors, depending on the > program / your needs. You can also record notes on a midi track by means > of your midi keyboard. But this is no sound, this is MIDI, it transmits > event messages, such as pitch , note on, note off... To get sound of a > midi track you need, again, a synth, something that translates MIDI > events to actual sound. It is the same case as your midi keyboard. It > doesn't make sounds by itself. > > To get sound of a midi track in these programs you need one of these: > > - A synth plugin, e.g., a DSSI plugin. > - A external software synth > - A external hardware synth > > In the first case, you "plug" the instrument inside the application. > In Rosegarden you right click on a track and choose "synth plugin". Then > go to instrument parameters and push the "No synth" button and load the > synth plugin, such as hexter, fluidsynth (with a soundfont loaded)... > This way you have sound from the master outputs of Rosegarden. > > In the second case, you route the midi track to the external synth, say > Zynaddsubfx. > In Rosegarden, go to Studio -> Manage MIDI Devices and, in the top left > window, MIDI playback, add a new device and call it Zynadd (for > example). You also can rename the existing default "General MIDI > device". Above all, connect it to Zynaddsubfx, which you will see in the > right column as an availabe output. Close that window. Right click on a > track and choose Zynadd, you have 16 channels. Choose the same channel > in Rosegarden and zynaddsubfx. This is an "alsa midi" connection and you > can check it in the alsa tab of qjackctl (in fact, you can make the > connection there as well). > > Ardour2 only has audio tracks, so you can't connect your midi keyboard > to it, to record or play notes. > > Workflow examples: > > 1. You want to record in ardour the sound from your midi keyboard > connected to zynaddsubfx, and hear (monitor) the sound at the same time: > > In qjackctl, connect (alsa) the midi keyboard to zynadd, connect (audio) > the output of zynadd to the input of an ardour track (add a track > first). To hear what you are playing, either connect zynadd's outs to > system_playbacks, or > choose in ardour: options, monitoring, ardour does monitoring. > > > 2. You want to record the notes from your midi keyboard to a midi track > in Rosegarden, while you listen to the sounds through whatever synth, > then you want make some corrections in the midi track, via > keyboard/mouse and once it is OK, you want to record the result to ardour: > > In Rosegarden, Studio -> Manage MIDI Devices, bottom left window, rename > (if you wish) the capture device to "88es" or whatever, and connect > the keyboard that you will see as an available midi input on the bottom > right window. Arm the midi track to record (yellow button) and record. > To hear what you are recording, you need to apply the above explained > (either a synth plugin or an external soft synth). Once you have made > the corrections to the midi track, you can record it to ardour. If you > have used a external soft synth, disconnect (audio tab) rosegarden > master outputs to ardour, you only want the synth connected to ardour. > If you have used a synth plugin, then connect rosegarden master outputs > to ardour audio track inputs. > > > Computer music is not a piece of cake and, in Linux it is a bit more > involved because of its modular approach (there are exceptions but it is > a bit like: one program, one task. As opposed to integrated musical > environments alà Windows/Mac). However, once you understand the basics > (and learn some tricks and workarounds) you can make up your own > workflow with the several and good tools you have. I mentioned ardour > because I use it and it is "the" linux multitrack recorder, but for home > recording it can be overkilling. You have audio tracks in Rosegarden / > qtractor / Muse as well. > > > I recommend these URL's: > > http://wiki.linuxmusicians.com/doku.php > (linuxmusicians wiki, newbies section) > > http://www.linuxmusicians.com/ > (the forum, where linuxmusicians of all countries and distros meet) > > http://lievenmoors.github.com/ > (a series of lectures on Linux & Audio) > > Also, www.ardour.org, www.rosegardenmusic.org, www.rncbc.org, and in > general, official sites of the programs, in which you can find direct > support form the devs and some advanced users. > > > > > > On Sun, 2010-07-18 at 23:47 -0500, jay gallivan wrote: > > > >> On Sat, Jul 17, 2010 at 6:34 PM, Pablo <[email protected]> wrote: > >> jay gallivan escribió: > >> > Thanks for your reply. I'm a total newbie to all of this. > >> > >> Hi Jay, > >> > >> > >> Greetings. Long couple of days growing my understanding of audio on > >> Linux. I've worked with micros since 1981, UNIX since 1988 and Linux > >> since 1996. I've never had to pay attention to audio before now. Is > >> this what happens when computer people find themselves in a band? > >> That's how I came to this. I play bass. It's tough to get the the > >> three of us together. So, the plan was to record the leader - who does > >> the singing and plays acoustic guitar - so i could practice. The > >> X-Station was lying around (bought for one of the kids years ago) and > >> I have 'extra' Linux boxes. So, the adventure began.... > >> > >> Pulseaudio is a linux sound system (audio server) desktop > >> oriented and > >> Jack (Jack Audio Connection Kit) is another one, oriented > >> towards music > >> production (low latency, anything to anywhere connections...). > >> Both use > >> the alsa drivers (jack can also use the ffado drivers for > >> firewire audio > >> devices but this is not your case) but apart from that, they > >> are very > >> different beasts. > >> > >> ALSA had been just another four letter word to me. No more. > >> > Alsa is a lot of things at the same time and depending on the context, > "alsa" refers to completely different concepts. See > http://lievenmoors.github.com/ > > >> > >> > >> > >> Timidity is a default midi server. It can do jack, but it > >> doesn't by > >> default. In a musical environment timidity is not as used as > >> qsynth for > >> example, which is "jackified" by default. But you must load a > >> soundfont > >> in qsynth. > >> > >> I'm beginning to get the idea of MIDI. Another protocol. In Rosegarden > >> I can seen MIDI message flow. That's helpful in the same way that > >> looking at network packet traces are helpful. "Oh. So that's what's > >> going on." > >> > >> > >> In order to use Rosegarden (the audio part) you need the jack > >> audio > >> server and forget about pulseaudio interfaces (once jack takes > >> hold of > >> your soundcard, pulseaudio is useless, and, hopefully, > >> harmless). You > >> launch the server by means of a graphical front-end called > >> qjackctl > >> (Jack Control in the sound and video menu). First, you press > >> "setup" to > >> configure the jack audio server. In the interface field you > >> select your > >> usb audio card (you will see a generic usb-audio or similar, I > >> guess). > >> Then press start to activate jack. > >> > >> Pulseaudio drops out of the picture but the motherboard audio i/o > >> still seems to be there. This appears to be the path to my external > >> speakers for monitoring. So that would be something like.... > >> Ardour/Rosegarden -> Jack -> ALSA -> chips -> speakers? > >> > Yes! > > Jackified audio apps -> Jack -> ALSA driver -> hardware audio device -> > analog in / outs -> micros / speakers > > For firewire audio cards: > > Jackified audio apps -> Jack -> FFADO driver (firewire) -> hardware audio > device -> analog in / outs -> micros / speakers > > > > > >> > >> If jack does not start, this is the first problem you should > >> solve (more > >> below). > >> > >> I had quite a bit of trouble with Jack. First, a very slow box - eight > >> years old. I moved to a newer box - maybe three years old - and found > >> i had way to little ram. 1GB. Went to 2GB today and things are much > >> better - with Jack grabbing 1.5GB. Ouch! Do i need to get more? > >> > >> > Not really, although jack loves RAM. There is this infamous bug that can > make that pulseaudio locks memory and jack is affected: > > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/jack-audio-connection-kit/+bug/491329 > > I really can't understand the reason why the importance is set to low. > It affects lots of people with little RAM. > > Check what you have in /dev/shm and remove the pulse files. > > qjackctl suspends pulseaudio and this should be enough but this doesn't > kill the pulseaudio daemon. > > To kill pulseaudio and make sure it does not respawn, you have to, for > the music production oriented user: > > edit ~/.pulse/client.conf > > and add the line: > > autospawn = no > > or edit the system-wide file: > > /etc/pulse/client.conf > > > Then, you kill pulseaudio with: > > pulseaudio -k > > And you can always restart it with: > > pulseaudio --start > > > Users find a problem when they try to play music, see youtube, etc, when > jack is active, because most multimedia players are not jackified by > default. There are several approaches to this issue, like: jackify the > player, use the pulse-jack audio sink, use one audio card for music > production and another for desktop use, log in with a "music" user where > pulseaudio is permanently killed or completely removed... > > >> > >> If it starts, then the jack audio clients, like rosegarden, > >> and many > >> more (most music oriented programs are jack-aware by default) > >> will show > >> their ports in the connect window, audio tab, when you launch > >> them. > >> The MIDI tab stands for jack MIDI which is not used by > >> Rosegarden > >> nowadays. The alsa tab refers to alsa sequencer or alsa MIDI. > >> It has > >> nothing to do with jack but it is there for convenience > >> because several > >> synths and sequencers use the alsa sequencer for MIDI and jack > >> for > >> audio. Some newer ones use jack MIDI and jack audio but not > >> Rosegarden. > >> This explains that you could capture midi in Rosegarden > >> despite the jack > >> server was not active. > >> > >> > >> So both ALSA and Jack do MIDI? Can you point me to some data flow > >> diagrams? > >> > > Yes, both do midi. Jack midi is rather new on the scene. Alsa midi, the > alsa sequencer, has been there for ages. Ardour3 will do jack midi. Some > synths do both. There is not a lot of documentation on it. Supposedly, > jack midi is more precise but I am not an expert. There is an alsa to > midi bridge daemon called a2jmidid to allow connections between clients > of both midi implementations. > > > >> > >> > >> Also, take into account that Rosegarden does not make sounds > >> by itself > >> and it has not any default synth that makes it work out of the > >> box.. It > >> needs either a software synth plugin or an external synth, > >> either > >> software (say, qsynth, zynaddsubfx...) or hardware. But this > >> is a > >> second step. The first step is jack setup. > >> > >> > >> I'm do have Jack running in RT mode. The Ubuntu Studio installation > >> installed a preemptive kernel. First time I've ever needed that! I did > >> come across some documentation describing what you outlined. That > >> certainly caused me concern re memory. > >> > >> In order to have jack working in realtime mode (recommended) > >> you need, > >> as a user, some priorities that you can check in a terminal > >> with: > >> > >> ulimit -r (this is realtime priority for the user) > >> ulimit -l (this is memlock limit for the user) > >> > >> You need the first one at ninety-something and the second one, > >> unlimited > >> or a reasonable amount of your RAM, in kB. In turn, to gain > >> these > >> privileges, there must be a file called: > >> > >> /etc/security/limits.d/audio.conf > >> > >> with the relevant lines. So please, do a: > >> > >> cat /etc/security/limits.d/audio.conf > >> > >> and you must have something like: > >> > >> @audio - rtprio 99 > >> @audio - memlock unlimited > >> > >> Now you (you the user) have to belong to the "audio" group. > >> Check in a > >> terminal with: > >> > >> groups > >> > >> If you see audio (between others) you are done. If you don't, > >> you must do: > >> > >> sudo adduser user audio > >> > >> where "user" is your login name. Then reboot and you will have > >> the > >> system prepared to use jack > >> (check again with the ulimit commands) > >> > >> > >> > >> > > >> > I don't see anything in Patchbay. In PulseAudio Manager I > >> see > >> > X-Station analong stero as a sink and the same as sources > >> for stereo > >> > and stereo monitor. > >> > >> > >> Just don't use pulseaudio. > >> > > >> > When I connect (via Connect) X-Station to Timidity I am able > >> to play > >> > the keyboard and hear the results via my computer's > >> speakers. And I > >> > can record and playback via Rosegarden when I connect > >> X-Station to > >> > Rosegarden. > >> > >> Don't use timidity unless you do it jack-aware. > >> > >> > > >> > I've tried Audacity on my Windows XP box and I've been able > >> to > >> > pickup/record from the X-Station audio ports - though merged > >> into a > >> > single track for some reason. > >> > > >> > So it seems that the X-Station is doing what it's supposed > >> to do. But > >> > that (some component of ) Ubuntu Studio is dropping the > >> X-Station > >> > audio. Any thoughts on that? > >> > >> See above. > >> > >> Cheers! Pablo > >> > >> So here's where things now stand. I bought an Alesis iO2 with a view > >> to being able to capture the mic and guitar at the same time. I've > >> been able to demonstrate that to myself by using the Puluseaudio > >> volume controller and the Sound Recorder application. Sound Recorder > >> created an ogg file which I then converted to wav. I was able to read > >> the file into Ardour. Then I ran out of weekend. > >> > >> Right now I'm in a good place: I can make the recording I need to > >> make. But I've also discovered a whole new area of interest! I've > >> always like Linux - and avoided MS and Apple. It's wonderful to see > >> how much amazing work has been done! > >> > > just start jack and record to ardour directly, by connecting the right > system_capture port to an audio track. If you see that ardour is > overkilling for certain tasks and you want a simple jack-aware audio > recorder, try with timemachine or jack_capture (jack_capture_gui2 for a > graphical front-end). > > http://plugin.org.uk/timemachine/ > http://archive.notam02.no/arkiv/src/ > > If don't want to compile, the first one is in the official repos and you > can get jack_capture from the excellent ppa by Philip Johnsson: > > https://launchpad.net/~philip5/+archive/extra/ > > > >> Thanks very much for taking the time to reply. > >> > You are welcome! > > Regards, Pablo > -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list [email protected] Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
