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Pulkol still has two Eso vehicles, is guarded and driven by Eso/UPDF soldiers and still earns a government salary, OFWONO OPONDO says. For him to make an outburst against government qualifies him to be called a rabid dog. Badru D. Mulumba spoke to him:-
Pulkol says that government is run by people related to the president by family ties or similar selfish interests. Where do you lie?
I donât think Pulkol is related to Museveni by marriage because Pulkolâs wife is from Somalia. Pulkol is a Karimojong. Historically, Pulkol was not anywhere with Museveni until Museveni picked him from the university and made him a minister.
But Pulkol is not like any other outsider. If there was âcliqueismâ, he must have been part of the group. The president receives advice from many, many sources. When your advice was not taken, and you suspect that it was Ofwonoâs advice that was taken, you suspect that there is a clique.
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| Ofwono speaking during a radio talk show at Obbligato in Kampala (File Photo). |
Why canât you have a situation where no side feels defeated?
Which one side? There has not been sides in the Movement. But there has been tendencies. If you take the case when elections had been rigged, there was a big tendency led by honorable Bidandi Ssali that letâs not pick up arms. Another led by Kategaya and Museveni that said, âlet us pick up armsâ. They separated ways.
After 2000 elections a tendency by Bidandi and Kategaya called for opening up political parties. That tendency of Bidandi and Kategaya emerged victorious.
Museveni conceded. Museveni has never accused them of âcliqueismâ.
After the Kategayas won that round, are you trying to win the next to lift the presidential term limits?
Movement politics is not about scoring points, about saying that now that they won, letâs us also see if we can win. First, you have placed a lid on presidential term limits, on academic qualifications. Since you are opening up, open up everything.
Are you running the country your own way?
Well, if we wanted to run the country our own way, we wouldnât have gone to the Constitutional Review Commission. We would have waited with our own ideas, come up to the floor of the House, ambush every one. We could have waited in March of 2005. Even if it were true that I want this country run according to my way, why should I let the country be run against my will if I am able to influence - democratically?
We have said many times that these are proposals. And it is not the Movement Secretariat or cabinet that is going to decide. Even this canvassing of support in the population for a referendum is really to try and ensure that every Ugandan feels that he was included in the political process of fundamentally changing our political landscape. But even if we go to a referendum, ultimately, it is the Parliament that must take a vote to change this constitution. No body is proposing to bypass Parliament.
Which Ofwono is speaking? The politician or the Movement spokesperson?
Ofwono the Movement spokesman is a politician. I can never divorce â I will not be in that group of people who say, âI am now speaking as an individual, cardinal Wamala type. I always speak as the Movement spokesperson. So, the position I am giving is the official position of the Movement.
Will Museveni run again?
That is speculation and the president has been very categorical. That as far as he is concerned, he has never told anybody, he has never speculated, and he has said he is not going to be involved in speculation and said so far the constitution has not been amended.
I have sat in meetings with the president â of three, of five. He has never anywhere, even saying that, âyou Ofwono go and talk on third term for purposes of gauging whether I am still popular. There are people out there, scared of the unknown. This term limit thing was brought by Nyombi Tembo who said that we cannot discard our Movement. And again we cannot discard any possibility for Museveni coming back.
You always seem to have a confident answer to every one â government friend or foe. Who are you?
But I am part of the Movement. I consult broadly. And I sit in meetings.
Are you the eye and ear of the president?
That is what I am appointed to be. I am the ear, I am the eye, the mouth of the Movement, which so happens to be headed by the president.
You just called Pulkol a rabid dog. What is your most memorable phrase?
The most current is rabid dog because it is so strange that Pulkol, the only person who has served twice in that position, to make this outburst the way he did, especially telling lies, for example to say that people are trailing him, they want to bump him, Pulkol has been in ESO, can he name anybody who disagreed with government and he [Pulkol] was detailed to kill?
Pulkol has two ESO vehicles officially. The soldiers who guard Pulkol, and the ones who drive him, are ESO UPDF officers. Pulkol has a salary in govt or at least he has a retainer, which has been there. So, for him to say that government wants to bump him, why then give him those soldiers to guard him?
To say his institutions are not being used, while he is running down the institution of intelligence. There was John Kazoora, there was Jim Muhwezi, there was general Tumwine, there has been Oketcho. Kazoora was even jailed. We have never heard him make that outburst â He has his political disagreements.
That is why I am saying Pulkol seems to have been beaten by a rabid dog. For Pulkol, who was picked by Museveni and made chairman of the Ranches Restructuring Board, made minister for Karamoja Affairs, Land, Primary Education, to come up and say that Museveni has given people air, what has he done? Pulkol doesnât have even a hut, a grass thatched hut in Matheniko. And he is now posturing here that he is the one who thinks about the Karamajong.
For Pulkol to warn people that he is a son of a Karamajong, and to think that if he invokes the people of Karimojong, he is going to intimidate, he can only intimidate the people of Teso, where they have been rustling. Pulkol says that walking naked in Karamoja is a sign of transparency. Why doesnât Pulkol walk naked in Kampala?
If one listened in to talk shows, the biggest defenders of the Movement are the Opondos, critics seem to be the Mugishas. Why a regional shift in Movement support?
Some people from the west have expired. So they no longer stick to the Movement. Some people are aggrieved, disgruntled, some think that because the Movement was started and led from the west, this was their thing. And did not expect within in a short time of 18 years that this Movement would catch fire and other people would claim the same amount of stake or even higher say than themselves.
They want to control Pafo. And they want to control the mainstream Movement. They think that Uganda is their enterprise. And Museveni is giving away their enterprise.
When Jeje Odongo was army commander and Kizza Besigye published that statement of his, he was asked to go and explain to the army commander why he wrote it in violation of the army statute, he wrote one sentence and said, he did not know Jeje. If it wasnât for NRM, they would never have met anywhere.
They think that Ugandans from other ethnic groups are going to be ever and ever grateful to some small group of people from the west. But this Movement is now a national enterprise. No one can claim it.
Are you still pushing for a referendum against Wapa (RIP) counsel that it would serve only propaganda value?
Wapa is dead. Must Wapaâs view continue ruling us? I know that Christianity is ruling although Jesus is dead. But it was modified. When Jesus was there, we only had Christianity. Not catholics, protestants, methodists. Why didnât Wapa put this to the public when he was alive. We are not going to be held by the wishes of the dead people.
They have not said they are afraid. They have said that it is against the law?
But we have never said that the referendum is going to amend the constitution. We have said, letâs go and ask the people. Then, parliament would decide in accordance with what the people have said because now every one claims to be speaking for the people. People say that Shs 30bn for the referendum will bring water to Karamoja. He is just being hopeless.
How come we have never heard people say that it is very expensive to maintain the current parliament, that what MPs discuss can be discussed by three people - letâs have 56 people â one per district?
Isnât it political gymnastics for the Movement to get involved in talks with parties yet the outcome of the talks has no bearing on the constitutional review?
The Movement is leading political force in the country today. The fact that it is in government, it is obliged to lead the way. We are the ones who dismantled multiparty, who stopped gun politics.
We are saying that we are the ones leading in dialogue and consensus building. But this consultation can never replace parliamentary procedure. It is supposed to enrich it.
In the 1990s, you reportedly said that this is a government made up of robbers. How come you are now part of it?
I wrote an article attacking General Salim Saleh. I said General Saleh as a senior army officer, cadre of Movement, political activist, is wrong to put his hand into the UCB. I said it would be good if government disowned Salehâs action and cleared its name. And the president indeed called a press conference.
Would you criticise Saleh if he did that now?
Saleh is now a private citizen. At that time, Saleh was the defence advisor to the president. Right now, I have spoken against these generals who create ghost soldiers.
Isnât it because those generals are on the wrong side of the president?
If you want to know, I am on record for saying that some ministers are letting down the president. When I appeared with the president on the Capital Gang, I told him. I have said it during one to one interviews; in New Vision I was the only journalist who could interview the president. People have been thinking that I came into the Movement yesterday. This Ofwono and John Kazoora introduced this Movement here in Kampala and Makerere. | 
