Pam:
The problem with our dear learned Professor George Ayittey, is that he likes to self praise himself.
When the Ugandan Dictator Idi Amin was asked as to why he likes to blow his own trumpet?
Idi Amin replied :" I do not blow the trumpet, but rather, "I like playing the accordion!" The British Journalist could only raise his eye brows!
Granted , Ayiitey has some good Ideas. To deny this fact, is not to engage in meaningul genuine Intellectual discourse....But then Prof BN Ayiitey is some times full himself!!!
People are tunred off to Ayiitey's rehetoric when he starts calling Africans Idiots, fools, barbarians, nuts...e.t.c
MK
pamelakilgore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
pamelakilgore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Dr. Ojo,
I fully accepted your definition of "akata." As a Yoruba, and as a
genuine scholar, you know what you are talking about. Ayittey was dead
wrong on that. I have been to other forums where other Yorubas have
defined the term the way you have.
Another problem with Ayittey's response, as with many of his posts, is
that one gets the impression that our professor thinks he is the only
one who know everything. It would be nice if he would be humble.
Ayittey is not even in the same league with African scholars such as
Professor Ali Mazrui in terms of intellectual contribution and
influence. Yet I have not read anything written by Mazrui in which he
writes with contempt of other people or gives the impression that he
is the only one who knows everything, in spite of his lofty stature.
And he is acknowledged by many people , including leaders and scholars
and not just African, as the most well-known and most influential
African scholar. I remember reading an article by Wole Soyinka who, in
spite of some differences he has had with Mazrui, said about Mazrui:
"There is no question that Professor Mazrui is the foremost Africanist
scholar today."
Yet he is humble and has some good things to say about a number of
African leaders - based on objective evaluation - even if he disagrees
with them on a number of issues. He mentions that also, on what they
differ. And I definitely put you in that category, Dr. Ojo. And that
is scholarship. It entails dispassionate analysis. You are NOT a fake
scholar, no matter what some of your critics say.
You are making a great contribution. Without people like you, Evelyn
and others, the discussion in this forum would be one-sided and
dominated by Professor Ayittey.
And to Professor Ayittey, please take this hum ble advice from a humble
African woman, a descendant of African slaves brought to these shores
in chains: Let the people shower praise on you when they think it is
appropriate to do so. I know there are arrogant intelligent people in
the world; which is not very intelligent. Truly intelligent people
don't say they are intelligent or try to give the impresion that they
are intelligent. It is other people who acknowledge their
intelligence. And calling African leaders "coconut heads" does not
help to solve Africa's problems.
Dr. Ojo, please don't leave Mwananchi. You are an indispensable asset
to the group.
Pam
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Dr. Valentine Ojo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Pam:
>
> I am always very flattered, and at the same time, very humbled, when
people
> like you choose to recognize my modest contributions on these forums.
>
> In your own case, I a m particularly touched. This is against the
background
> that, if I remember correctly, my reaction to your first posting on this
> forum was not exactly very warm.
>
> Then there was that little, thing about the Yoruba word "akata" for
> Americans of African origin, where I wasn't sure if my attempt to
explain
> this phenomena was acceptable to you or not (especially given the "other
> theory" by our in-house Africa-Expert.)
>
> And of course, Professor Ayittey and his supporters have done their
best to
> discredit me intellectually and professionally at every turn, and to
even
> put me out there as a hypocrite.
>
> Yet, people like you, and many others that I have come to know and
respect
> on these forums, have chosen to give my modest contributions your nod of
> recognition.
>
> I say thank you to you all by thanking Pam for her compliment.
>
& gt; Even if I were an "impostor" what has that to do with whether my
> contribution to a particular topic sounds reasonable or not?
>
> It is indeed unfortunate that people like Professor Ayittey, who are the
> first to scream "he or she is attacking me personally", have no
weapon to
> counter legitimate criticisms of their position, than to come out
swinging
> wild to "destroy the reputation" of their critics.
>
> The same person who called a woman a "prostitute" when he ran out of
lame
> defenses for his indefensible position on the odious and insalubrious
> circumstances surrounding his so-called Free Africa Foundation has
called me
> a "fake" and a "ghost" on these forums.
>
> However, let us leave it to Mother Africa's discerning participants like
> Pamela and others � the target audience - to decide what they find
> convincing, what not..
>
> Val �j�
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf
> Of pamelakilgore
> Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 11:10 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: [Mwananchi] Re: The Cutlass hits Dr. Val Ojo | Ahsante
>
> Dr. Ojo has, as a genuine scholar, given a definitve response to what
> Swahili is. Just from the way he writes, anyone can tell he's indeed a
> scholar.
>
> It's true Swahili has borrowed from all the languages he mentioned.
> For example, baiskeli, which means bicycle, from English; rais, which
> means president, from Arabic.
>
> It's also true that there are no pure languages.
>
> One of the strongest arguments that Swahili is essentially an African
> language is the fact that Arabs do not understand Swahili anymore than
> Swahili speakers understand Arabic unless they know those languages.> Take an Arab from Oman, Kuwait or Iraq or Egypt or Saudi Arabia who
> does not know Swahili. Let him listen to Swahili speakers and see if
> he understands what they are saying. He won't be able to. If Swahili
> was basically Arabic, he should have no problem understanding what
> they saying. And vice versa.
>
> I saw the documentary by Herny Louis Gates. if you remember correctly,
> Dr. Gates asked the two young men in Zanzibar who claimed to be
> Persian: "But you look just like me. So you are not African?"
>
> There is an inferiority complex among some black people in East Africa
> - I don't know homw many - especially along the coast and on the
> islands of Zanzibar and Pemba in Tanzania, and on Lamu in Kenya, who
> feel that it's better to identify themselves as Arab or Persian than
> African. That is one of the terrible consenquences of conquest:
> Africans as a conquered people , with many of them feeling inferior to
> their conquerors and glorifying them as heroes instead of denoucing as
> villains, telling it like it is, exactly what they are.
>
> What makes it worse is that Arabs and Persians (Iranians) feel that
> they are superior to blacks. I remember reading Professor Ali Mazrui's
> book, "Towards A Pax Africana," in which he says if your father is an
> Arab, you are Arab; if your grandfather is an Arab, you an Arab; if
> your grandfather, great-grandfather,and great-great-grandfather is an
> Arab, you are still an Arab. It goes on and on. That is what Arabs
> teach. And that is why many of the people in the Dafur region in Sudan
> who call themselves Arab look black just like any other Africans. Yet,
> they are busy killing their own people because of their warped minds,
> brainwashed by Arabs thinking that they are also Arab. Also, that is
> why many people in Ea st Africa who call themselves Arab are just black
> African more than anything else.
>
> What they are saying is that Arab blood is superior to African blood.
> Only a tiny drop of Arab blood overpowers all the black African blood
> that is in you flowing in your veins. This raw-naked racism by the
> Arabs and terrible inferiority complex on the part of Africans who
> belive this nonsense.
>
> And, yes, Farooq, you are right. That is one of the reasons why Dr.
> Salim Ahmed Salim was rejected by the leaders, black leaders, of
> Tanzania's ruling party CCM. Otherwise they would have chosen him as
> their presidential candidate and he would have been the next president
> of Tanzania. Instead, they chose Jakaya Kikwete, a black African, and
> Tanzania's minister of foreign affairs.
>
> Dr. Salim is an Arab. And many black people are still bitter, very
> bitter, over their mistr eatment by Arabs for more than 1,300 years
> they have been in East Africa enslaving Africans for all those years;
> at least most of those years. In fact, slavery existed in Zanzibar
> until the 1900s although the slave market on the island was closed in
> 1873.
>
> I don't condone racism by either side (that is why I said earlier
> that Salim had the right to run for president and let the voters
> decide) but put things in proper historical perspective and understand
> why many Tanzanians feel this way, INCLUDING those from Zanzibar.
> Even, black Zanzibar leaders, rejected Salim, a fellow Zanzibari.
> They questioned his race and ties to his ancestral homeland Oman
> during the presidential nomination. And memories of the 1964 Zanzibar
> revolution are still fresh in their minds.
>
> They remember the brutal mistreatment they suffered at the hands of
> the Arabs. That is why Nyerere and Nkrumah financed the Zanzibar
> revolution and provided weapons to the Africans led by Ugandan
> self-stlyed Field Marshall John Okello to overthrow the oppressive
> Arab regime. Africans were still being treated as virtual slaves as
> recently as 1964 before the January 12, 1964 revolution.
>
> Pam
>
>
>
>
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Dr. Valentine Ojo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> > Farooq:
> >
> > Yes, Swahili is considered a REAL African language with a spread
> that can be
> > equaled maybe by only Hausa.
> >
> > And yes, it is a language built on Bantu structure with a lot of
> admixture
> > from Arabic, Persian, Indic languages, and even English,
Portuguese and
> > Spanish.
> >
> > It may at one time have been a trade Creole Along the East African
coast
> > tow ards the Saudi and India peninsula, but it has achieved the
> status of a
> > full-fledged language in its own right.
> >
> > And by the way, there are no "pure languages" as such � most
> languages have
> > borrowed features from other languages they came in contact with,
> just like
> > there are no pure cultures as such, since cultures in contact
> invariably rub
> > off each other.
> >
> > That is however no reason to see your own culture or language as
> implicitly
> > "inferior", simply because some people in whose culture and way of
> life, the
> > word "AGGRESSION" is written large and in uppercase letters, tell
> you it is
> > "inferior".
> >
> > Val Ojo
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf
> > Of F arooq A. Kperogi
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 2:16 PM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: [Mwananchi] The Cutlass hits Dr. Val Ojo | Ahsante
> >
> > Is Swahili a "real African language"? I thought it was Arabic creole.
> > The structure of the language is largely Bantu (African) but the
> > vocabulary is either preponderantly Arabic or has has Arabic roots.
> > And maybe there are many Persian words in it too. Is this what you
> > call a "real African language"? Can somebody educate me, please?
> >
> > Farooq
> >
> > On 5/18/05, James Ololo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Oga Val,
> > >
> > > Ahsante daktari. (Thanks doc)
> > >
> > > -James
> > > -------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > --- "Dr. Valentine Ojo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > James, Chifu:
> > > >
> > > > Frankly, I see no big deal that you guys resorted to
> > > > Swahili, as long as
> > > > translators are waiting in the wings.
> > > >
> > > > Why should an African have to apologize for using an
> > > > African language?
> > > >
> > > > Get over it guys! I say, great! I was a sign that
> > > > the issue touched both
> > > > gentleman deeply, that they resorted to their most
> > > > natural means of
> > > > _expression_ - Swahili!
> > > >
> > > > I can only applaud!
> > > >
> > > > Val Ojo
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > &g t; > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf
> > > > Of James Ololo
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 5:44 AM
> > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > Subject: [Mwananchi] The Cutlass hits Dr. Val Ojo
> > > >
> > > > Chifu and Mwananchi,
> > > >
> > > > I am sorry too. I should have answered in English
> > > > but
> > > > I got over excited to write in a real African
> > > > language. An adviser has just informed me through a
> > > > private mail that Swahili has been adopted by
> > > > African
> > > > Union as it's official language. Is it not what we
> > > > want? Everything African?
> > > >
> > > > Kindly accept my sincere apology as I address you
> > > > back
> > > > in Pat Anderson's language.
> > > >
> > > > Iam sorry.
> > > >
> > > > -James
> > > >
> > > >
> > > -------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > --- Chifu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Folks,
> > > > >
> > > > > I got your point. I should have addressed him via
> > > > > private email. Sorry
> > > > > that I wrote that in swahili in a forum where few
> > > > > understand it. As
> > > > > James earlier stated I told him politely not stir
> > > > > another cyber war
> > > > > and let us move forward with other topics.
> > > > >
> > > > > chifu
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] om, Wale Oyewumi
> > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > > Members of My Family,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > James once wrote a language strange to my
> > > > > understanding in
> > > > > describing my rejection of the offer kindly given
> > > > by
> > > > > Prof.Ayittey.In
> > > > > that hit piece,he courteously dubbed my
> > > > decisivenees
> > > > > in arrogance.I
> > > > > was surprised,unhappy even though I did not say
> > > > > anything.Whether
> > > > > giving loyalty or speaking against a given idea,it
> > > > > is absolutely wrong
> > > > > to speak in any language besides the one
> > > > officially
> > > > > contained in the
> > > > > description of this great forum.It does not only
> > > > > represent
> > > > > hypocrisy,it a slap on decency.In private
> > > > > e-mails,people of common
> > > > > ethnic groups could speak their mother tongues,but
> > > > > in public places
> > > > > driven by focus and purpose ,we ought to openly
> > > > and
> > > > > clearly stand for
> > > > > what we think is right and boldly repudiate what
> > > > our
> > > > > mind says is
> > > > > wrong,in the language everyone understands.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Life And Love,
> > > > > > Mankind Olawale Oyewumi.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "George B.N. Ayittey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > > James and Chifu,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Would you two be kind enough to translate what
> > > > you
> > > > > wrote?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Should I take a guess? CONTUMACIOUS HYPOCRISY?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > George Ayittey,
> > > > > > Washington, DC
> > > > > >
> > > > > > James Ololo wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Chifu Wetu eeh,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Haya basi pole, wajinga ni sisi.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -Jemsi.
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > ----------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- Chifu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > > > > Ndugu james,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Sasa wewe wataka vita na majogoo wa
> > > > mtandaoni
> > > > > hapa
> > > > > > > > ama? hebu taratibu
> > > > > > > > kabla moto haujawaka.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Nduguyo,
> > > > > > > > Chifu
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], James
> > > > Ololo
> > > > > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Hey folks,
> > > > > > > > > I found this posting of Dr. Val Ojo on a
> > > > > Nigerian
> > > > > > > > > chatgroup. I am now asking myself where he
> > > > > puts
> > > > > > > > > Mulindwa and his followers.
> > > > > > > > > Has the cutlass falen on Dr. Val ?
> > > > > > > > > -James
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > -----------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > VALENTINE OJO:
> > > > > > > > > Presidential Libraries are fine and good.
> > > > > However,
> > > > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > > am sure Americans
> > > > > > &g t; > > did not start the education of their
> > > > > population
> > > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > the building and
> > > > > > > > > endowment of Presidential Libraries.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Where are the local street-corner
> > > > libraries,
> > > > > > > > available
> > > > > > > > > to every citizen, the types that were
> > > > around
> > > > > when
> > > > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > > was growing up in Nigeria? Where are the
> > > > > > > > elementary
> > > > > > > > > school, high school, college and
> > > > university
> > > > > > > > ; libraries
> > > > > > > > > worthy of the name?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Is Nigeria's education now to be hitched
> > > > to
> > > > > > > > building
> > > > > > > > > Presidential Libraries? When will African
> > > > > heads of
> > > > > > > > > state stop being mere poor clones of what
> > > > > they
> > > > > > > > think
> > > > > > > > > Western leaders are?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Western leaders try to cater to what they
> > > > > think
> > > > > > > > are
> > > > > > > > > the needs of their
> > > > > > > > > people - rightly or wrongly - African
> > > > > leaders are
> > > > > > > > > catering to personal
> > > > > > > > > ego.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > What is the difference between an Obasanjo
> > > > > > > > > Presidential Library at Owu
> > > > > > > > > Quarters in Abeokuta, and a Catholic
> > > > > Cathedral in
> > > > > > > > > Yamasoukrou or
> > > > > > > > > wherever?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Is this not still the same old crowd -
> > > >
> > > === message truncated ===
>
>
>
>
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