Re: [Ugnet] Re: Ugandanet Digest, Vol 12, Issue 91

[Owor Kipenji]

So you never read the piece he had on success stories like

those of the very late Sir Edward Mutesa II?

Kipenji

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Mr. Mulindwa, understanding your Big mouth.....aposing any thing from Kabila, Kagame, Kaguta etc..do you have any solution if any, about our African leaders???????!!! Except failires like Obote,Binaisa ,Besingye.,Muwanga,and Amin? Not forgiting your mad- man Kony. CWA.JB

----- Original Message -----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thursday, July 14, 2005 6:55 am
Subject: Ugandanet Digest, Vol 12, Issue 91

Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 13:55:51 +0300 (EAT)
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Ugandanet Digest, Vol 12, Issue 91
To: ugandanet@kym.net

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Today's Topics:

1. Re: [Ugandacom] A brief commentary (Edward Mulindwa)
2. Re: [Mwananchi] Re: Why Africa needs the white man - we need
him! (Edward Mulindwa)


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Message: 1
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 06:31:42 -0400
From: "Edward Mulindwa" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Ugnet] Re: [Ugandacom] A brief commentary
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

If Museveni did not come to power through a vote, why does voting for a third term make him stay in power? And I am starting to look at this problem from another end. Suppose all MPs voted against third term then wh at? Museveni would have walked? I do not think so. I think Uganda is screwed and I think those like Kasangwawo and Dr Kigongo, the Ssenyanges who preached to us the infidels that Uganda is under savior, have to realize today what we knew long ago when their relatives were eating at the cramps falling off the table. That we have a killer in power and he is not going any where, third term no third term. What in the future? Museveni will get pissed one day and even close Mengo crap.

Just watch.

Em
Toronto
The Mulindwas Communication Group
"With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy"
Groupe de communication Mulindwas
"avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie"

----- Original Message -----
From: Matek Opoko
To: ugandanet@kym.net ; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 2:09 AM
Subject: [Ugandacom] A brief commentary


Fellow Citizens:
By now all of you must have heard of the move by Yoweri Mus eveni's members of the so called Uganda Parliament to grant Yoweri Museveni his so called "third Term". All I can say is that a sad chapter in the Ugandan Political History is once again about to unfold. Those so called MP's who voted for Museveni's KISANGA , will most definately live to regret their decision. Let time be the judge. You will quote me in the very near future on this one.
Good night!
Matek


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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 06:53:51 -0400
From: "Edward Mulindwa" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Ugnet] Re: [Mwananchi] Re: Why Africa needs the white man -
we need him!
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED], ugandanet@kym.net, rwanda
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED],
[EMAIL PROTECTED], CameroonNet <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Congo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Africans

"Let me remind Pat Anderson that foreign expatriates like her husband who f eed fat on aid money and on NGO and World bank money, riding around African villages in 4X4s clowning around and spending money loaned or "given" to African countries with stringent conditionalities, are part of the problem of the continent."

These bold words must be embedded on each and every African's door, as an assurance that we will fight to the last blood to make our population regain their dignity. Be it in Kenya or Sierra Leone.

I hate this computer which cross posts.

Em
Toronto
The Mulindwas Communication Group
"With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy"
Groupe de communication Mulindwas
"avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie"

----- Original Message -----
From: Moses Ochonu
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2005 10:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Mwananchi] Re: Why Africa needs the white man - we need him!


If this fellow is truly an African, which I doubt (anyone, even a skin head , can acquire an email address and use it to join an internet discussion forum), then one must really weep for Africa. If he is an African, he is way too lost to be retrieved, and such a self-loathing, white-man-worshipping, and insecure African does not deserve any Africa anyway.

Predictably, his tirade resonated with Pat Anderson and her tales of the white man's salvation mission to Africa. As usual, she has ceased upon the posting by "Clarence Kamara" to regale us with stories of how her husband went to Nigeria on one such mission to save Africans from themselves by teaching them civil engineering, a practice which until her husband's arrival in the country was unknown to the people, who, according the "Clarence's" racist construct, lived in a barbaric, Hobbesian state before the arrival of the white man.

Let me remind Pat Anderson that foreign expatriates like her husband who feed fat on aid money and on NGO and World bank money, riding around African villages in 4X4s clowning around and spending money loaned or "given" to African countries with stringent conditionalities, are part of the problem of the continent. Her husband probably went to Nigeria as part of a cardinal conditionality of one of those Western "aid": the so-called foreign expatriate involvement in projects, which eats up a large chunk of aid money since these folks and their spouses (like Pat) have to be paid and taken care of from the money supposedly given as aid. In the end, what is left gets lost in corrupt African bureaucracies, with very little trickling down to those who need this aid money. What a cycle of wasteful hypocrisy.

Pat's story is a classic illustration of the hypocrisy of Western Aid. Western aid is an avenue for providing jobs for every dislocated, disillusioned, jobless, frustrated, or idealistic Dick Tom and Harry of Western extraction. Then when these aids do not succeed because of these multi-layered and expensive expatriate aid bureaucraci es, the same Western governments and agencies who impose the likes of Pat's husbands on African countries scream about Western aid disappearing in Africa and talking about endemic, if not genetically embedded corruption. Iam not even going to talk about the Western banks, businessmen, and corporations which routinely facilitate the transfer of these funds to secret Western bank accounts, ensuring their safety afterwards.

What a racist rant!


On 7/13/05, davidkapinga1961 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:
Kamara,

Our confused African brother (patriot?), if this is
name calling, as you may define it, so be it!

I hope you don't aspire to high office. You'll be another Tshombe, and
may be even worse in terms of poisoning the minds of our youth who are
the future of Africa. If people like you are in "stewardship" of our
continent, we won't have it!

Where were you raised, in Liberia or Sierra Leone? I go by your last
name and k now of some people from those countries. I'm familiar with a
few names in that region, including yours.

I hope you don't become a leader of one of those countries if that's
where you come from. That's why I asked where you come from.

You have a way of presenting facts to seduce and fool the gullible. I
know about Nyerere and his leadership and what he did for Africa. You
are one of the few Africans - although I don't the others - who say he
misled Africa and did almost nothing good, the same indictment you
have levelled against Nkrumah and Sekou Toure.

Sekou Toure once predicted that after he is gone, the French will be
back. He has been vindicated by history. "You will miss me," he is
quoted to have said. I'm sure not all Guineans miss him but proud
Guineans who are proud of being African and not servants of the French
do, even if it is for the simple reason that he stood up to the French
and demanded full independence and dignity for all Africans including
you, and not just for Guineans.

But to people like you, the struggle for independence was meaningless!
And you are proud to be an African? What kind?

David Kapinga

--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "clarencekamara"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:
>
>

> Africa needs the white man!
>
> Dr. Ojo, you sound so much like Dr. Nkrumah, and so much like Sekou
> Toure, and so much like Lumumba and Mugabe and Samora Machel ( and
> even like Castro in his seven-to-nine-hour-long speeches when he rages
> against western imperialism and the exploitation of the Third World),
> with your militant rhetoric about African unity and anti-western
sermons.
>
> In this category, I also include Farooq, Oba, Professor Ochonu,
> together with you as the intellectual ringleaders in this forum always
> compalining about the West. But I want to tell you this: We do need
> the West, we do need the white man in Africa. Without whites, without
> the West, Africa would be in worse shape than it is in today. And you
> know it!
>
> Europeans brought us the blessings of material civilization: schools,
> hospitals, cars, trains, factories and industries, pens, ink and
> paper, even clothes (remember untold numbers of our people, if not
> most of them, wore nothing but tree barks and animal skins or nothing
> at all; and they walked barefoot as millions still do today). White
> people also taught us how to read and write. Those are facts, nothing
> but facts, ladies and gentlemen. In fact, Europeans brought us many
> other things we never had and which are too numerous to mention here
> and without which life would be hell, and things you yourselves
> wouldn't want to give up or swept out of Africa, our beloved home. I
> am sure you like all that, th ank you to Europeans for coming to Africa
> (for going to Asia, as well, and to the Americas).
>
> And people like Mrs. Patricia Anderson, the British lady in this
> forum, know full well what good things her people, the British and
> other whites, brought to Africa in terms of development and material
> civilization - even spiritual! We never knew a thing about the Bible
> before them! We worshipped at the shrines of pagan gods, instead of
> the Almighty. We offered human sacrifices, nothing but barbarism! Just
> face it. Tell me if you still support all that, and if you do, why you
> still don't pray that way but have instead embraced Christianity.
> Christianity may have been abused by some Europeans when they came to
> Africa to justify colonization and exploitation but that does not mean
> that Christianity itself is bad or wrong. That is why many of you are
> Christians.
>
> N ow enters Dr. Kwame Nkrumah, with his anti-western bias, an African
> nationalist par excellence. Also add Dr. Julius Nyerere to this. After
> Dr. Nkrumah died, Dr. Nyerere became the strongest proponent of
> Nkrumaist views, in addition to his own he articulated very well even
> if they were misleading to us as Africans, besides Sekou Toure but who
> did not live or last long in power as Nyerere did.
>
> My question to you, Ojo, Ochonu, Farooq, Oba and others is this: Be
> honest, just be honest, what did these leaders do for us with all
> their anti-western talk? Tragically for Nyerere, he stayed the longest
> in power, longer than Nkrumah and Sekou Toure, only to prove that he
> did nothing for Tanzania and for Africa. When he stepped down, he said
> during his tenure, post-colonial Tanzania trained thousands of
> engineers, doctors, teachers and other professionals; and that
> Tanzania a chieved over 90 percent literacy, the highest in Africa
> during his leadership.
>
> My questions to you, and to this highly intellectual president Nyerere
> as he was widely acknowledged, are these: Where are the jobs for all
> those engineers and doctors (Nyerere trained) without Europeans, yes,
> without white people, building industries and factories in our
> countries we cannot build? Where are the hospitals for doctors to work
> in without the West helping us to build those hospitals as they still
> do today? Where is the medicine without which hospitals and clinics
> are nothing, medicine which comes mostly from and is manufactured
> mostly by white people in western countries? Where are the colleges
> and universities without western help to build them in our countries?
> During colonial rule, Makerere University was the Oxford of Africa,
> attracting some of the brightest African studen ts from all over
> Africa, from Kenya to Sierra Leone, Tanganyika to Nigeria, Ghana to
> Nyasaland and so forth. But what happened to this prestigious
> institution under African leadership after independence? Everything
> went down the tube! The same for Ibadan University, another pride of
> Africa, as well as other institutions of higher learning built by the
> colonialists. They are now empty shells or have very little to show
> for all their former glory.
>
> Those are facts, harsh realities, my fellow Africans and the rest of
> you who are not African but who are now reading or hearing this.
> Challenge me on that with facts. No name calling, please. I am not a
> sellout. I am an African like you, and I love Africa as much as you
> do. All I am saying is that we should appreciate the help white people
> have given us and which they continue to give us. If they pull out
> today, we ha ve nothing! If they pull out today, with everything they
> brought to Africa and take it back to Europe or to America, many of
> our people are going to die. Plain and simple. I know truth is a
> bitter pill to swallow, but there it is, swallow it. You may get
> better and awaken to reality, however harsh it is, however demeaning
> it may be, and however severe a blow it is to our dignity as a people.
> I speak as an African, as one of you, as much as you are a part of me,
> and you should appreciate candour especially from your own kind like me.
>
> When our people starve, it is white people who bring us the food. When
> our people are ill, it is still the same people, white people - more
> than anybody else - who bring us medicine. Even when our people are
> drowning, or are trapped in collapsed buildings, it is white people,
> with their equipment and rescue dogs, who come to our rescue, not> fellow Africans from other countries on the continent, not even from
> neighbouring countries. That is because they can't do it! That is
> because they have nothing, I mean nothing, they can use or give to
> help their fellow Africans. But white people can do it, and they
> always prove it! We don't and can't. Nothing but facts, ladies and
> gentlemen, however harsh!
>
> Remember all that maize, all the beans, flour, milk, high-protein
> biscuits, and other foods including vitamins and medicine for our
> starving people who also suffer from all kinds of diseases as do
> millions others? Remember all that? Does it come from Liberia or the
> Ivory Coast or Ghana or Guinea to feed the starving in Mali or Niger
> or Burkina Faso? Does it come from Nigeria or Kenya to feed the
> starving in Malawi or Sudan? No! It comes from European countries,
> and North America, and from Australia and New Zealand and other
> non-African countries to help us. And you know it. Those are facts,
> indisputable facts. Dispute all that with facts, not with insults and
> name-calling.
>
> What would we do without western help, what would we do? Eh? What
> would we do without white people helping us more than anybody else?
> What would we do without their food and mediicne and equipment? What
> would we do without their technology? What would we do? Can you
> honestly answer that? We wouldn't be able to do anything to save all
> those lives without western help. Those are not African planes
> transporting and sometimes dropping bags of food to the beleaguered
> across the continent. Those are not African ships bringing to us the
> commodities and other things we need. We don't even make cars! Let
> alone ships and planes! Yes, we may assemble cars, from car parts, in
> a couple countries or so. But we don't make them. They come from
> Europe, America, Japan and China. And that is not our technological
> achievement. That is not our food, either, brought on ships and
> planes. It came from Europe and America. And they don't even have to
> do it! Why don't some of us appreciate western help, and even help
> from some Asian countries as well as some in Latin America? Can you
> answer that?
>
> I may be coming down hard on ourselves, collective selves as a people,
> but we need, and we must, face reality if we are going to improve our
> condition across Africa. It's just too bad that we are in such bad a
> shape. And, please, don't jump on the West for this, hell, we had more
> food and even more soap and toothpaste during colonial rule than we do
> nowadays in many of our countries. And remember, we didn't start
> making soap, or toothpaste, either! And what we had then and we have
& gt; now is still imported from the same countries, from the same people,
> mostly white people. Yes, from the white man!
>
> Many of us even enjoy western foods. I personally love hamburgers! I
> don't know about you, but I'm just crazy about them (as well as ice
> cream and milk shake), to be honest with you. We don't have all that,
> or only very little of it except for the elite in, Africa. What's
> wrong with that, enjoying western foods and delicacies? Not all of our
> food, African food, is nutritious. That's why many of our people,
> millions and millions of them, are malnourished. I'm not saying
> hamburgers are more nutritious than all African foods, but it's a
> delicacy to some of us, and many of us enjoy it in a way we never did
> in Africa! I am not humiliating myself or our people when I say this;
> it is only a way of saying thank you to westerners, yes, white people,
> for all thi s enjoyment, as much as you enjoy driving and riding the
> cars they make, and as much as you enjoy using their computers and
> other electronic gadgets and other things you use and which were
> invented or developed by them, white people whom we desperately need
> in Africa in order to develop.
>
> The main point I am making is this: What's wrong with seeking,
> accepting, and getting Western help to help us fight malnutrition and
> disease? Whom are we asking for help now to fight the AIDS pandemic?
> The same westerners who are maligned so much by many of our people.

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