Rook,
"A good Muganda is a dead one." This was said by the same guy who purposely imported Scania lorries and organized purposefully organized them into marauding vehicles of death, to sweep the street of Kampala in operation Panda Gari ro randomly pick citizens from the streets to go and brutally murder them to quench his insatiable thirst for blood and to scatter their skulls all over the place.
It is the same guy who repeated Lucifer's quip that 'To reign in hell is better than to serve in heaven'.
Can you guess who it was?
rook 1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Joe,
Let us put your question the other way round and ask
instead thus:- " Why would the UPC govt kill thousands
of its own citizens in Luwero? What would it benefit
from it? Or rather who would benefit the most from the
killings in Luwero? Nay who has gained the most from
it?"
The answer to this is obvious!
And since i agree with you that ultimately the govt of
the day has to account for the safety of its
citizens.. the UPC govt has to take the bigger part of
the blame for failing to provide protection for the
people of luwero just like the NRA/M has to take the
blame for the sufferings in Acholi to day.
So Joe, apparenty we agree on almost all of the facts
about Luwero. Apportioning blame to only one party is
were we seem to disagree.
But you are a wise guy...Look at the political
capital the NRA/M has dra wn from the massacres in
Luwero and from that draw a logical conclusion. Bring
all your long formal education to use and i promise,
you wont miss the mark!
Stay safe
rook
--- Joseph Senyonjo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Rook,
>
> I did not compare Kony's and Museveni's tactics.
> Second, the question of why Museveni succeeded in
> coming to power was implied. Now Roook, if Kayiira
> failed due to his myopic views, how could Museveni
> succeed in attracting the loyalty of the Baganda
> despite your allegation that he is responsible for
> his mass murders of them. Remember not only Baganda
> children fought with him. Remember people like
> Sserwanga Lwanga et cetera? Would people of that
> caliber blindely follow someone who was decimating
> their people? Do you really think that the Baganda
> are so dumb that they could not identify their
> killers?
>
> Joseph
>
> rook 1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Joe,
> Great thoughts indeed on the comparison between Kony
> tactics and M7's bush war tactics.
> However remember i said "some" (the list was not
> exhaustive!) of the methods used by people like M7
> and i forgot to add one other very important reason
> why--- M7 killed adults in Luwero- to make their
> children orphans so it would be much easier for him
> to recruit them into his rebel ranks. Children as
> you know, are more amiable to indoctrination.(Please
> do read Obwon Okwir's and China Kaitetsis
> testimonials on this and the plight of the child
> soldier"
> Besides chief, your question was "Why would M7 kill
> people in Lowero blah blah blah..." Not -why did he
> succeed in coming to power if he did use those
> methods (similar to the ones Kony is using) and Not
> Kony?
> These , as i am sure you are aware ,are two
> different questions soliciting entirely two diff
> rent answers!
>
> If you want me to answer this one too i can..just
> let me know. But briefly the answer is that Kony
> lacks the political acumen to turn that
> disillusionment into political capital. Two M7 is a
> more astute rebel leader than Kony and or Kayira.
> Remember Kayira? If you don't let me tell you about
> him and his rebel army the UFM/A? He (Like Kony now)
> based his rebellion on a narrow ground (Tribal ganda
> hatred for Obote(?) and hence the murder of alleged
> UPC supporters in Luwero) He didn't go far with his
> rebellion based on that myopic view .
> It is M7 who actually saved him and gave his ganda
> based rebellion a lease of life with his "non
> sectarian ideology". Read Bwegye's recent
> interviews.
>
> Another factor M7 used to get to power was his
> ability to hide his true aims in order to forge
> alliances with other interested partners. He forged
> alliances with DP who got to the Okellos and thus
> basically leaving the Govt. without an effective or
> trusted army!
> He made alliances with ex Amin soldiers like Moses
> Ali to get the arms and money he needed from Libya.
> Kony on the other hand is said to be averse to any
> alliances. This lack of sophistication has mainly
> been his major un doing. His inability to take
> advantage of "marriages of convenience" to attain a
> higher gaol has restricted his "Movement" to the
> Acholi area where he feels secure and safe. Attempts
> to cure him of this fear by some other interested
> parties has failed- as yet!
>
> So anyway, M7 murdered people in Luwero as a method
> of swelling the ran ks of his army. He killed his
> perceived opponents to cow them into submission.
> (Please read articles by the late Kayira's
> journalist friend Henry Ngombya?). He tells us that
> one day he visited M7 in the bushes of Luwero and in
> the tent M7 used as his Tactical Hquarters , the
> walls were all lined up with skulls! He then told
> him that that is what he (M7)did with those who
> disagreed with him!
> "Kirinza oba ganna" these are the facts!
>
> Need i go on?
> And please no! I wouldn't like you to hide your
> true feelings about these things. Its good that you
> have showed us them. Forgive my use of the word
> "Bigotry" I used it for lack of a better term. I am
> still thinking of a better word to use in your case.
> When i eventually come on to it i shall promptly
> apply it.
> Rgds
> Rook
>
>
> Rook,
>
> You wrote:
>
> Simply put, they(rebels and this includes the(
> NRA/LRA/UFM you name
> it) usually do this...kill civilians, in order to
> create chaos in the community. They kill people to
> make them hate the govts they fight. They kill
> innocent people to creat mistrust and
> disillusionment.
>
> I am still struggling with that argument. It does
> not seem to make a lot of sense to me given the
> circumstances in Luweero, and in Uganda generally,
> during the 1980s. That modus operandi (way of doing
> things) seems to be one that Kony subscribes to, but
> look where it has gotten him. He has certainly
> succeeded in creating chaos, mistrust and
> disillusionment, not to mention, succeeding in
> cementing the Acholi's hatred of the government he
> is fighting. Nevertheless,it has not gotten him
> anywhere near power. Despite Kony's amazing survival
> and fighting skills, it would seem that his
> mutilations of innocent citizens has alienated them
> from him, making it almost impossible for him to
> seriously threaten Museveni's government due to lack
> of local support.
>
> The situation in the Luweero triangle in as far as
> the people's disposition towards the government is
> concerned was entirely different. The people there
> were not neutral. Museveni did not need to kill
> hundreds of thousands in order to get them to hate
> the government he was fighting. They already hated
> and dreaded it. In addition, to the 1966 memories,
> much of this dread was due to general insecurity and
> rampant death around 1980, before the elections,
> much of which was attributed to factions of the
> UNLA.
>
> Now Museveni is definitely not an angel, not with
> his constant talk of 'we will kill them', and
> threats of puting people 'six feet under'.
> Nonetheless, it is highly unlikely that he would
> have retained the support of the residents of
> Luweero triangle if they had identified him and his
> fighters as their killers. And I believe it would be
> virtually impossible to hide such a fact for long
> via concealed identities. They people would turn
> their backs on him. Instead due to the people's
> support, Museveni made relatively rapid progress in
> his goal of attaining power.
>
> You wrote:
>
> Notice too the similarity here with the 1966 crisis!
> Only the govt, nay Obote was guilty of provoking an
> otherwise nice and innocent Kabaka!
>
> Rook, let's for argument's sake agree that Mutesa II
> provoked Obote. Politicians worldwide are provoked
> by their political opponents, some of whom plot to
> impeach th em, as in the cases of both Nixon and
> Clinton in the United States. But how many so
> provoked democratic lleaders surround parliament
> with troops, imprison members of their executive
> without trial, abrogate a democratically enacted
> constitution, and in the process kill scores of
> people? Are those qualities of good, wise, and
> democratic leadership? Don't these actions
> themselves reflect on the character of the leader,
> perhaps to the extent of calling in question the
> rationality of his version of events?
>
> Finally, I only speak of what I believe to be the
> objective truth, though as you say, it may be
> impossible to remove all subjectivity in situations
> where one was deeply affected. The truth, as I see
> it, but would that necessarily make me a bigot?
> Would you rather be in the dark regarding my
> thoughts on key events in our coun try's history?
> Would it better if I lied to you about my
> perspective?
>
> Joseph
>
>
>
>
>
> rook 1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Joe,
> You asked Oryema this:- "However, you did not answer
> my question as to why
> Museveni and his men would kill hundreds of
> thousands of people who were sheltering and
> protecting them from government troops."
>
> I have noted that you and a score of other people
> here
> , have been asking this self same question over and
> over again ostensibly as the "smoking gun" to show
> the
>
=== message truncated ===
Rook
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