Friends
As this thread continues, those of you reading it need to understand the
Uganda the WBKs left us, and that Uganda is the Uganda of 1970. Look closely at
the discussion about that country, it holds a huge hole between 1962 and 1970,
why no one discusses it? What exactly happened in Uganda after we got
independence? For some very unknown reason, when Uganda history is discussed we
talk about gaining independence, but as soon as that Kololo function ended it
seems Uganda got off earth, and then it resurrected in 1979. And that is
because since 1979 we have remained in the very same government to today.
WBK wrote all about Uganda and what it had, a system that was working, taxes
collected and the population responsible, so examine that Uganda by
understanding what we had in 1970. And that is a full 8 years after
independence, an independence we got with a fully functioning country. By 1970
Uganda was actually worse than in 1962, we got independence where a certain
class of Ugandans and their children, got entitled to the national cake, and
the rest of the country abandoned by our fellow Ugandans. Every national cake
was nationalized to be streamed to the UPC faithful’s and their children.
Until 1970, it was illegal for a Uganda child to speak Luganda at school, many
were actually whacked by Uganda teachers for they spoke a Uganda local
language. In 1970 we had only one national television station, UTV which was
broadcasting only between 6pm to 11 pm and in only black and white. We had one
radio station Radio Uganda which was opened only between 6am and closed at
11pm, we had only one national paper called The Uganda Argus, Luganda news was
read once at 8pm for 15 minutes, the entire economy was controlled by Indians,
to a point that it was illegal for a Ugandan to go to Nairobi and buy a safety
pin, you needed to get it from a Bandaranaike. And many other services that
were only controlled by the government. Uganda was still a colony of foreigners
only that our fellow Ugandans, UPC members, were running it for the foreigners.
The current Uganda you see today, has managed to even survive through the
Museveni time for it was opened up by Iddi Amin, in fact if WBK decides to tell
the truth, Uganda got independence in 1971 than in 1962. We started to be
allowed to speak Luganda on Uganda schools under Amin, Swahili to come on Radio
Uganda under Amin, we were a true colony of the British until 1971. The lives
we had in 1970 is exactly the life that the WBKs want us back into. Coffee was
major foreign exchange earner in Uganda, don’t you wonder that all of it was
grown only by Ugandans, but only bought by Indians? So Ugandans were never
allowed to buy Coffee and yet the Indians never grew it.
But this is what is so interesting, instead of forcing people to pay graduated
poll tax, why didn’t the WBKs deduct the tax off the coffee sales? Why were we
not going to an Indian store, to sell the coffee, then the Indian keeps the tax
percentage? For at that time you knew exactly what you had earned, why were
they deciding it based only on the coffee trees you have in the plantation?
Because the WBKs and Indians never invested into the system to be able to tally
that money off the sales.
Until 1970 we were mining copper out of Kilembe, send it to Jinja copper smelt
industry, which was owned by Indians, they clean it up to 85% purity, then send
it to UK to be purified to 90%, for that is the best you can purify it, then
the UK turn around to sell it to us as a British copper in finished products.
They were only cleaning it to the next 5% to own it, yet no one cared. That is
1970. If you get a moment to carry this discussion with WBK ask him one
question, when we got independence in 1962 what did we achieve by 1970. What
new industry did Ugandans build, a new road, a new hospital, a new
infrastructure, what did Uganda actually build between the independence and the
incoming of Iddi Amin? I can tell you what Amin did between 1971 and 1979. What
did we get in the years after independence? What did the WBKs do with all the
money they got out of coffee, cotton, copper, and a whole pile of water running
in the Nile? By the way we got Nile Perch before Iddi Amin came to power, I
give him that but that is it.
Bonnes vacances à tous
EM -> { Trump for 2020 }
On the 49th Parallel
Thé Mulindwas Communication Group
"With Yoweri Museveni, Ssabassajja and Dr. Kiiza Besigye, Uganda is in anarchy"
Kuungana Mulindwa Mawasiliano Kikundi
"Pamoja na Yoweri Museveni, Ssabassajja na Dk. Kiiza Besigye, Uganda ni katika
machafuko"
From: ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com <ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com>
On Behalf Of Herrn Mulindwa Edward
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2019 4:34 PM
To: ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com
Cc: ugandanet@kym.net
Subject: {UAH} A lot of diasporas aren't interested in politics back home!
WBK
That argument is very typical on how Uganda policies are made by Makerere
graduates, you all base those policies on urban centers. In the process you
forget the 85% of Ugandans that dwell in the rural areas. One can even argue
that your proposal is what has caused the massive urbanization in Uganda, for
you took out any meaning of being a rural Ugandan. Here is the typical life in
the rural Uganda sir. My father never grew coffee to be able to pay his poll
tax, it was to pay for the kids schooling, and a Gomes for the mother of the
children. Make sure there is a chicken on the table on Christmas day, and a six
pounder steak on Easter. It is going to become very cumbersome for you to
explain how a society worked hard in the country so that it makes a one time
payment. You are telling us that all Eastern African countries without poll tax
system have lazy people? I differ.
Here is the damage the poll taxing system did to the rural Ugandans.
You showed up and counted the trees of coffee that my father had, tallied all
of them up and decided how much he was going to pay for that year. You were not
taxing what he had received, but what you predicted him to earn that year. If
it was a dry year and those trees never produced Mbirabiras, he had to pay it
or end up in jail. Now how were you graduating the taxes of the people in the
North? Were you counting their chickens or the pounds of millet they were
expecting to grow in the year? Did you consider the Chickens that Kamunye was
going to hack? What about a whole year where Millet had failed? How did you
compensate for that? You instructed people to pay those taxes and they had no
way of coming back for reevaluation, a very reason you planted the lowest
number of DCs in Uganda, only 18 DCs. If it was easy for that tax to be re
evaluated then why the saying “Ne’bwolaba DC” It was that complicated that in
my entire life in Uganda I do not know a single Ugandan that had ever succeeded
in tax waive.
Next week is an important week for me, for I am going to pay my 2018 taxes, not
2019 but 2018, I always pay my taxes the last week of the year. Why do I take
that long? Because it gives me a time to review all my paper work, to remember
any receipt I forgot, to review my credit cards and verify with the banks. I
know how much I made in 2018, and next week I am going to pay the 2018 tax. If
I were living in your opinion, next week I would be paying the 2021 tax with a
hope that I will make so much as you have calculated on your Makerere page..
Ugandans have spent too much time, in planning how to take money out of the
population, they have not bothered to invest in how to take it. Why did I
advise Robert Atuhairwe to go after money remitted into Uganda? Because the
government and the society have done that investment already, the system is in
Uganda and already computerized, you can follow it and know exactly how much
came in and how much was cashed out. Why didn’t I advise him on taxing
property? There are so many Ugandans with huge houses in Uganda, why not tax
those properties annually? Because you have not invested into them. They are
not listed, they’re not addressed, and you do not know what house and what
class is built where. You just dump houses as you individually wish thus tough
to tax. Take a moment and invest into the taxation system, the money is
available than going after the rural people.
Ugandans did not leave rural areas because they do not have to pay taxes any
more, they left for after you collected those taxes you never came back sir. Do
you know why my father lives that long? Omululuza was his cure. Salt on a wound
was very effective. You walloped all their money and you never returned it in
services. But you delivered to your self the services you needed in the urban
centers, where you lived and the rest of Ugandans decided to follow up on those
services. The roads were dependent on my father’s bulungi bwansi, not the tax
you took but Bulungi bwansi. You picked up all the children of Acholi and Langi
and used my father’s tax to pay their school fees. Ask them they are in this
very forum, did their parents pay a penny for their education? Where the heck
did that money come from? Now come with me into Luwero district, and show me a
government maintained road, and I will show you the roads that were standing
due to Bulungi bwansi.
You were such bad governors that the jails at gombolola/sub county hqs were
never built by the government, they were built by the village people. Tugenda
ku gombolola kuzimba kadukulu. The reason they are no longer there is because
they were never permanent fixtures, you jailed these people, and the villagers
were the ones feeding them. WBK do you actually know of a Gombolola budget to
feed the prisoners? No good people out of their good will were cooking for
them, or their families were bringing food for them. Now WBK if you failed to
build the roads, you failed to feed the prisoners, what exactly did you do
with the money you hauled annually from our parents?
I will help you sir, you went abroad and bought the most lucrative guns, and
handed them to Langi and Acholi who came to the villages to murder and rape
those very same people you hounded for poll taxes. And in the process of
murdering them, they used the poll tax ticket as a process of identification.
Wewe mujinga me nataka chicketi Ya Mucholo maka tano, Pumbavu. Sadly that
Acholi never wanted to know if the tax was paid, he only wanted to prove that
the owner of those tickets, is a Muganda, and after he saw those tickets he put
a bullet in his head Infront of his children and wife. And to today neither
Acholi nor you who financed them with our money, ever thought of a public
apology. The best we can get out of this very sad rural situation, is abolish
the poll tax system for it was very unfair, it was used to take money we never
received value of, but it was used to identify our very many dead people.
“Omusolo Omugereke Kikafuuwe” and I am glad I de-campaigned it out of our
country.
Bonnes vacances à tous
EM -> { Trump for 2020 }
On the 49th Parallel
Thé Mulindwas Communication Group
"With Yoweri Museveni, Ssabassajja and Dr. Kiiza Besigye, Uganda is in anarchy"
Kuungana Mulindwa Mawasiliano Kikundi
"Pamoja na Yoweri Museveni, Ssabassajja na Dk. Kiiza Besigye, Uganda ni katika
machafuko"
From: ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com
<mailto:ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com>
<ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com <mailto:ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com>
> On Behalf Of WB
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2019 1:28 PM
To: 'atuhairwe robert' via Ugandans at Heart (UAH) Community
<ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com <mailto:ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com>
>
Subject: Re: {UAH} A lot of diasporas aren't interested in politics back home!
"And it is very interesting that the WBKs of today, defend poll tax, a taxation
that was so unfair, to be levied on our parents for they own a coffee tree
which we could never guarantee how much it would produce. A war against poll
tax that I fought for years literary, yet the very same WBKs will never
question why Uganda offers such freebies as money transfers. Wake up people,
the soup is getting cold !!!!!!"
Mr Mulindwa:
Poll tax was not unfair. It was based on ability to pay that is why chiefs went
around assessing taxpayer's wealth. Those who had lost the ability to pay were
in most cases exempted publicly by chiefs or even DC and they went off to
enjoy. The majority who had been assessed to pay some poll tax based on income
or projected wealth proudly did so.
Many could approach fellow Ugandans for work so they could earn money to pay
off their poll tax. Ugandans were willing to work to pay the poll tax before
they could freely congregate in their drinking joints. Granted, it may have
been occasionally harsh in that some defaulters were forced to hide or sleep
outside of their homes but the majority paid it and were proud to display they
receipt.
Toady Ugandans are not ready to work. Go to Uganda and ask for labour to help
clear your plantations. No one is interested in such work. The roads are in
poor state but no one is interested in PWD/Pidda work . Why? They have nothing
to worry about it. That is why many maximize leisure nebigenderako . Why are
job needy Ugandans today declining paid labour? Because YKM is his populism
dealt away with the only compulsory tax that drove majority to work to earn a
living to pay it.
I urge all of UAH members to ponder: why were poverty levels not as bad when
Ugandans were required to pay poll tax?. My argument is that the desire to pay
poll tax drove/motivated/inspired/disciplined Ugandans to take work seriously
because poll tax was binding: you either paid or went to jail period.
Today there is no threat for jail. Which brings me to the big question: what
happened to jails at gombolola/sub county hqs since they mostly held poll tax
defaulters?
You should also remember the words of the famous USA judge Wendel Holmes that
"taxes are what we pay for civilization" . What is it Ugandans pay for
civilization?
Too much leisure is a bad thing and Uganda is exhibit A. Too much leisure is
reflected in food insecurity in a country blessed with fertile soils, in
abandoned coffee farms and above poverty levels. why toil when there is no
mandatory tax to pay? why bother about work at all etc.?
Sadly, neither the official opposition nor the pretenders make the explicit
connection of what ails Ugandan society. Many wonder what happened to the famed
work ethic of Ugandans. YKM ruined it when he abolished poll tax. I challenge
anyone in UAH to argue to the contrary . That is why populism for the sake of
it can be counterproductive.
wbk
_____
From: 'atuhairwe robert' via Ugandans at Heart (UAH) Community
<ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com <mailto:ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com>
>
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2019 3:32 PM
To: ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com
<mailto:ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com>
<ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com <mailto:ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com>
>
Subject: Re: {UAH} A lot of diasporas aren't interested in politics back home!
About TAX, i hadn't taken it for granted that deductions are made. If not, it
should commence. Will study it more and advise the concerned. Wait for the
hullabaloo!
On Saturday, December 28, 2019, 6:50:14 AM PST, Herrn Mulindwa Edward
<mulin...@look.ca <mailto:mulin...@look.ca> > wrote:
Robert Atuhairwe
This discussion reminds me to ask you another question, Uganda receives
millions of dollars in money sent by Ugandans in diaspora. That money is cashed
in at a certain computerized location, so when I send money to Jaja Muwanga in
Bweyogerere, one must report to a computer terminal to clear those funds. Why
no one has ever targeted that computerized money exit point, and tax it? Do no
take too much, but let us say a 2% or a 5% charge. What is the real damage that
can be done on those transactions? Every country I have lived in has banks that
charge a bank fee, and I have never seen anyone complaining about those
charges, by the way they raise them almost every year. Why are these
transactions going into a country tax free?
And it is very interesting that the WBKs of today, defend poll tax, a taxation
that was so unfair, to be levied on our parents for they own a coffee tree
which we could never guarantee how much it would produce. A war against poll
tax that I fought for years literary, yet the very same WBKs will never
question why Uganda offers such freebies as money transfers. Wake up people,
the soup is getting cold !!!!!!
Bonnes vacances à tous
EM -> { Trump for 2020 }
On the 49th Parallel
Thé Mulindwas Communication Group
"With Yoweri Museveni, Ssabassajja and Dr. Kiiza Besigye, Uganda is in anarchy"
Kuungana Mulindwa Mawasiliano Kikundi
"Pamoja na Yoweri Museveni, Ssabassajja na Dk. Kiiza Besigye, Uganda ni katika
machafuko"
From: ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com
<mailto:ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com>
<ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com <mailto:ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com>
> On Behalf Of Herrn Mulindwa Edward
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2019 4:13 AM
To: ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com
<mailto:ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: RE: {UAH} A lot of diasporas aren't interested in politics back home!
Friends
How much time did Ugandans torch in arguing the value of dual citizenship
again? I was supposed to burn my time to discuss it for I came from Uganda.
Okay now based on the level this thread has reached, given what WBK posted
yesterday, what is the value of me holding a Uganda passport? Why did that
conversation take almost two or three years of discussing, when it was an empty
discussion? No we do not hate the country, we look at the threads and just
refuse to be a part of stupid discussions. We allow them to go by. And what is
worse? Dr Munini Mulera was the flag bearer of “Ugandans in diaspora have every
right to dual citizenship”.
Personally I support Uganda government throwing a tax on all of us when we fly
home, you want the country to have good roads, and good hospitals cough up the
money to go in for you love the country. And pay good at the port of entry, I
show my Canadian passport at entry you charge me $500 American per entry. I
throw you my credit card you charge it, then you hand me a bottle of Uganda
Waragi and a nice girl, I take care of the rest. -> Gee’eeZ !!!!!!
Bonnes vacances à tous
EM -> { Trump for 2020 }
On the 49th Parallel
Thé Mulindwas Communication Group
"With Yoweri Museveni, Ssabassajja and Dr. Kiiza Besigye, Uganda is in anarchy"
Kuungana Mulindwa Mawasiliano Kikundi
"Pamoja na Yoweri Museveni, Ssabassajja na Dk. Kiiza Besigye, Uganda ni katika
machafuko"
From: ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com
<mailto:ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com>
<ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com <mailto:ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com>
> On Behalf Of Billie Kadameri
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2019 3:39 AM
To: WB <kyijoma...@hotmail.com <mailto:kyijoma...@hotmail.com> >; 'atuhairwe
robert' via Ugandans at Heart (UAH) Community
<ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com <mailto:ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com>
>
Subject: Re: {UAH} A lot of diasporans aren't interested in politics back home!
WBK,
You have already explained so well that I really have nothing more to add!
Ugandan diaspora should have sentimental attachment to home, come for holidays,
have a break from hard work and bad weather and then go back like they are
doing now. They should forget about influencing politics back home, when they
cannot even influence politics in their adopted countries.
You know WBK, in 2006 one Ugandan Doctor in South Africa sold his house and
gave the money to the Besigye campaign apparently sure that Besigye would win.
He had apparently been promised the position of Minister of Health. He has
never recovered from the shock up to today.
_____
From: ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com
<mailto:ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com>
<ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com <mailto:ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com>
> on behalf of WB <kyijoma...@hotmail.com <mailto:kyijoma...@hotmail.com> >
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2019 4:32 PM
To: 'atuhairwe robert' via Ugandans at Heart (UAH) Community
<ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com <mailto:ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com>
>
Subject: Re: {UAH} A lot of diasporans aren't interested in politics back home!
Mr. Kademeri:
Tell them. I told them the same thing several years back when some members of
UNAA asked me to write a brief document as to whether Ugandans in the diaspora
should vote in Ugandan politics. Why? Because they sent a lot of money home. I
wrote the document and sent it to UNAA with the message that Ugandans in the
diaspora SHOULD never vote in local politics in Uganda. Why? Because they would
not ordinarily be subject to whatever policies parliament enacts.
Imagine this. Vote in Ugandan politics where parliament outlaws safe abortion
for women. Where MPs vote for the death penalty. Where MPs have done
everything to undermine work effort and condemn Ugandans to poverty. But the
same Ugandans in the diaspora live in countries where women rights are
guaranteed or states /countries without the death penalty/pay taxes etc.
Sending money to Uganda to help family members is not sufficient to give
Ugandans in the diaspora the right to vote.
wbk
_____
From: 'atuhairwe robert' via Ugandans at Heart (UAH) Community
<ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com <mailto:ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com>
>
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2019 2:19 PM
To: ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com
<mailto:ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com>
<ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com <mailto:ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com>
>
Subject: Re: {UAH} A lot of diasporans aren't interested in politics back home!
Billie!!!!!!!!
On Friday, December 27, 2019, 5:50:16 AM EST, Billie Kadameri
<kadam...@hotmail.com <mailto:kadam...@hotmail.com> > wrote:
As long as the diaspora are already members of political parties in their
adopted countries, they have no business wasting time in the politics of
Uganda. To begin with, many of them are no longer Ugandans technically
speaking. I have never heard Italian Americans interfering in the politics of
Italy.
I have spent years in France but I never changed nationality. That's is why
when my friend George Okello wastes his breath talking about Uganda or Rwanda I
just ignore him because I know the real country or home for him where has
rights to change government or bring one to power is Britain or the Philipines!
Many Ugandan diaspora are a needless bother. They want have their cake and eat
it. Choose one nationality and stick with it!
Billie
_____
From: 'pink.revolution' via Ugandans at Heart (UAH) Community
<ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com <mailto:ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com>
>
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2019 10:23 AM
To: Mayimuna Kenyi <mayimu...@gmail.com <mailto:mayimu...@gmail.com> >;
Ugandans at Heart (UAH) Forum <ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com
<mailto:ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com> >
Subject: Re: {UAH} A lot of diasporans aren't interested in politics back home!
Vuvuzela imulalot atuhairwe, you want Mayimuna to "Go finger...", just like you
do to your benefactor mulalo dictator museveni. Yikes!
Pink
-------- Original message --------
From: Mayimuna Kenyi <mayimu...@gmail.com <mailto:mayimu...@gmail.com> >
Date: 12/27/2019 4:53 PM (GMT+07:00)
To: "Ugandans at Heart (UAH) Forum" <ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com
<mailto:ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com> >
Subject: Re: {UAH} A lot of diasporans aren't interested in politics back home!
Lol! The arrogance is astounding. Well....
On Fri, Dec 27, 2019 at 4:43 AM 'atuhairwe robert' via Ugandans at Heart (UAH)
Community <ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com
<mailto:ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com> > wrote:
Go finger Mayimuna!
On Friday, December 27, 2019, 4:26:09 AM EST, Mayimuna Kenyi
<mayimu...@gmail.com <mailto:mayimu...@gmail.com> > wrote:
"We have to set pre-vote interview": Who's "we?"
On Fri, Dec 27, 2019 at 4:03 AM 'atuhairwe robert' via Ugandans at Heart (UAH)
Community <ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com
<mailto:ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com> > wrote:
Is that being disinterested in politics or sheer ignorance. How else can a
country qualify as a shithole other than when its West-bound diasporians are as
green as riffraff in kasokoso? M7 alabye!
How come that I know the names of the entire cabinet in Kazakhstan yet I have
never been there?
When Ugandans go abroad, it is like they have entered heaven. All else is
thrown to the wind. I wanted them to start voting but that should be further
postponed.
They should vote in America where anything goes.
Alternatively, we have to set pre-vote interviews! Pass mark, 70%!
Robert Atuhairwe
On Thursday, December 26, 2019, 8:50:27 PM EST, Frank Mujabi
<frank.mujab...@gmail.com <mailto:frank.mujab...@gmail.com> > wrote:
Abbey
Do you blame them ?
UG is a shithole they were lucky to run out of.
BUT there are enough who are still interested in UG'S fate and they are
liftiiiing.
On Thu, 26 Dec 2019 2:05 pm Abbey Semuwemba, <abbeysemuwe...@gmail.com
<mailto:abbeysemuwe...@gmail.com> > wrote:
A lot of diasporans arent interested in politics back home. A lady, at a party
yesterday,thought Tamare Mirundi, is the PM of Ug!
You can do your own research if you want, but this is something I have tried to
do on ,almost, all Uganda occassions i'm invited to. Most people know Museveni
as the president, because he has been around, like, forever, but they don't
know rest of the guys in his cabinet, or running the govt.
On one ocassion, one thought Eria Kategeya was the vice president, yet he died
a long time ago. People here mainly think about work, mortgages,bills and their
families.
Personally, I think a lot of diaporans suffered so much while still in Uganda,
and blame the leadership of the country, such that they try so much to block
that part of their lives. In the process, they only concentrate on making their
lives better, and not indulge themselves in stuff they see as not changing
year, year out.
Abbey Kibirige Semuwemba
"In tribute to the United Kingdom and the Republic of Uganda, two bastions of
strength in a world filled with strife, discrimination and terrorism."
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