Sean Cribbs wrote:
>
> Corevisions wrote:
> >
> > hi .. i just read the ui discussion about widgets and have some
> > questions and ideas about it ..(think they are not really finished so
> > excuse me).
> >
> > first i want to give you my idea of how JOS should work ...
> >
> > - the first thing JOS should do on bootup is to initialize the desktop
> > (like MacOS) so you have no text based views
>
> I disagree. While I believe that a gui-only system is nice, many people
> prefer text-based user interfaces or command-line interfaces. Plus,
> they are much simpler to create and will give us something to test our
> code on once the bare-bones system is ready.
If the UI for JADE is graphical it should start in graphical mode, if
its text then it should start in text mode.
> > - with a special keycombination you can now enter the system-setup where
> > you can add/remove drivers etc
>
> Hmm... I don't know if this is necessary because JOS is supposed to
> allow users to specify drivers while the system (gui/cli/etc) is
> running. Most driver changes should not require a reboot or special
> startup selection procedures.
Hopefully, of course this isnt our tier of the architecture exactly
> > i think of a fully plugable system :
> >
> > ROOT
> > |- driver
> > | |- sound
> > | | |- (driver) soundblaster
> > | | |- (driver) MPU401 comp
> > | | .
> > | |
> > | |- video
> > | | |- (driver) VESA gfx
> > | | |- (driver) OpenGL
> > | | .
> > | |
> > | |- filesystem
> > | | |- (driver) JOSFs
> > | | |- (driver) FAT
> > | | |- (driver) Amiga FFS
> > | | .
> > | .
> > |
> > |- ui
> > | |- desktop
> > | | |- (desktop) standard JOS desktop _OR_ (desktop) experimental
> > 3D desktop
> > | | .
> > | |
> > | |- l&f
> > | | |- (l&f) Swing _OR_ (l&f) MacOS X Server _OR_ ...
> > | | .
> > | |
> > | .
> > .
>
> There are already many packages specified... see the Packages page on
> the JOS Wiki.
are these supposed to be packages or a registry tree?
> > this should be stored somewhere and all things should be implemented on
> > startup
>
> What are you trying to say? If you're referring to a registry, there is
> already one in the making.
two or three more accuratley
> >
> > of couse you will need interfaces like
> >
> > public class W9XlikeDesktop extends JOSDesktop
> >
> > or
> >
> > public class JOSFS_AmigaFFS extends JOSFileSystem
> >
> > - this should be the maximum the system should provide to the user. all
> > other things should be plugged into it to asure
> > a maximum of configurability
>
> I agree that it should be maximally configurable, but I think it's a
> little early to say what initial OOB configuration should be.
well the default should be the JOS UI/subsystems and filesystems and the
like are more for the arch mailing list
> > sorry if it is not really part of the ui section.
> > please give me a response and more of your ideas ...
> >
> > btw how exactly shold JADE work ? are there any links on the JOS page ?
>
> AFAIK from discussions with Digigod, JADE is the underlying system upon
> which all UIs rest. It provides things that are common among the UIs,
> like receiving keystrokes, handling graphics devices, input devices, and
> other output devices. The other UIs can be then defined using JADE as
> the workbeast. For example, a Traditional GUI would ask JADE to put the
> video card in graphics mode, and ask for a specific part of the screen
> to draw on. It would not have to know how all of this is being done.
> JADE is for UIs what OO is for imperative programming -- hiding all the
> work behind a nice interface, and making it reusable.
exactly! I think we should also be careful to seperate JADE and JOSystem
as much as possible. JADE is not part of JOS in the traditional sense,
it is more akin to an application (since some systems wont have a UI at
all)
as far as pages go:
JosPlatform --an old page that gives you the basic gist (or is that with
a 'j'?) of how JOS should be structured
JOSystem --whats in JOS the OS vs. whats in...
JADE --the page on JADE also see JADEProjectUpdate
Corevisions wrote:
>
> Sean Cribbs wrote:
>
> > I disagree. While I believe that a gui-only system is nice, many
> people
> > prefer text-based user interfaces or command-line interfaces. Plus,
> > they are much simpler to create and will give us something to test our
>
> > code on once the bare-bones system is ready.
>
> i did not mean JOS should not have a CLI but it should be implemented in
> a
> graphic environment
> but i accept the fact that they are easier to create.
there should be a graphics CLI, but there should also be a text one.
some systems might need a text-only CLI, its the same reason we should
have TUI. the point of JADE is to be unassuming and hence flexible.
> > Hmm... I don't know if this is necessary because JOS is supposed to
> > allow users to specify drivers while the system (gui/cli/etc) is
> > running. Most driver changes should not require a reboot or special
> > startup selection procedures.
>
> again i just meant that this gives you a startup configuration .. i
> _hope_
> that driver implementation is realtime ;)
If you mean we should allow prestartup configuration AND runtime
configuration I say we should just have one or the other, and by that I
mean runtime configuration
> > AFAIK from discussions with Digigod, JADE is the underlying system
> upon
> > which all UIs rest. It provides things that are common among the UIs,
>
> > like receiving keystrokes, handling graphics devices, input devices,
> and
> > other output devices. The other UIs can be then defined using JADE as
>
> > the workbeast. For example, a Traditional GUI would ask JADE to put
> the
> > video card in graphics mode, and ask for a specific part of the screen
>
> > to draw on. It would not have to know how all of this is being done.
> > JADE is for UIs what OO is for imperative programming -- hiding all
> the
> > work behind a nice interface, and making it reusable.
>
> i agree in this concept ... it should be easy to port to other platforms
> (not
> just x86)
the entire OS is meant to be easily ported from one platform to another,
thats the whole point of making it in Java afterall. the UI can look
like anything anywhere; it could have a mac UI on an intel machine (if
for nothing other then humor)
I think the biggest benefit of a super portable OS like this is in
hardware of all things. when someone makes a revolutionary hardware
architecture they have to code the entire OS and all the apps and then
no ones going to use it since they like there old apps. with JOS all
they have to do is port the JOSBox and possibly slap together some
drivers and such and they have a new architecture that runs every Java
app and has a robust OS that people know how to use from the get go.
Sean Cribbs wrote:
> Again, I disagree. There is no reason why a plain, vga text mode
> command line interface should not be available. What if the user is
> trying to test an experimental graphics driver? Certainly it doesn't
> make sense to have a GUI already loaded with a graphics-based CLI in
> it. There might be conflicts with the current graphics device (maybe
> it's a standard VGA or other driver).
even if we dont provide one it should at least be able to be made (we
cant do *everything* afterall)
> The startup configuration should only be specified at install time.
> After that, all driver changes should be made through tools that access
> the registry. I see no point for a startup configuration change unless
> it is to use a minimal configuration (like Windows safe mode).
the whole thing should be dynamic and persistent. if you change UI's and
your system crashes (hopefully from a power out and not JOS) when you
restart the new UI should be loaded since it altered the JADE registry
> > all in one it was just an idea and i wanted you all to know about it ...
> > i would really like to join you work but i think that i dont know enough to
> > help you much but i start learning ;)
> > (first thing is to get cvs running to download the source ...)
>
> We would be glad to have you on. More important than experience is to
> have an interest in what you're doing. If you have the interest, then
> you will have the impetus to learn when necessary.
I wholeheartedly agree with that (even if I did have to look up impetus
:)
Cheers,
DigiGod
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