Thanks, Patrick. Replies in text below... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Andries" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Don Osborn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 11:47 PM Subject: Re: Berber/Tifinagh (was: Swahili & Banthu)
> > ----- Message d'origine ----- > De: "Don Osborn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > I've thought for instance about the small number of schools here in Niger > > that teach in Tamajak, using the Latin based script and how easy it will > or > > will not be for the students to make the connections with the Tifinagh > that > > is traditionally used. It would be tidy to have one-to-one > correspondences, > > but even if not, some fairly consistent rules would help. I'm not sure > the > > extent to which people working on Tamajak in Latin orthography (presumably > > from the spoken language) make reference to traditions of spelling with > > Tifinagh, but it would seem essential. > > The Touareg (like the new Volkswagen) traditionnal usage of Tifinagh is very > defective if recall properly Hanoteau (in its Tamachek' Grammar this from > memory, not being at home) : geminates not noted, short vowels usually not > written, etc. I'm not too sure how you can pass from traditional Touareg > Tifinagh to the Latin-based script. I agree that the local usage of Tifinagh has variations - perhaps too much depends on individual imagination and skill than traditions of usage. I'm not sure what sort of efforts if any may have gone into defining usages of Tifinagh - most of the effort of education / literacy / applied linguistics agencies on this side of the Sahara has been on use of the Latin transcriptions (same as with other languages). Better understanding the geography of correspondences between two (or three) transcriptions of the same language (or same dialects of the language) could still be useful on different levels, though not necessary for Tifinagh encoding. Generally when vowels are not marked they are understood. If the word is clear from the rendition without (short) vowels, then its transformation into an orthography that uses vowels shouldn't be a problem. There are conventions for transliteration of Arabic into Latin characters, for instance, that are fairly well established. And vice-versa - I sat in on part of an elementary Arabic class years ago that began teaching the language in Latin transcription. Non-notation of gemination may pose a problem especially if it represents different pronunciation that is significant for meaning. Is this a question of user skill/knowledge or just the custom? If the latter and the Latin transcription notes gemination, then a transliteration process may have to rely on context (something more like translation). But this gets off on another tangent. Anyway, my thought is that it is worth keeping this issue of the relationships of different transcriptions in mind, although, again, it does not directly affect the issues of encoding Tifinagh. > > And it is perhaps imporant too to take this on a broader scale to > understand > > the traditional ways of writing Berber in Tifinagh (and Arabic) and to > > harmonize the Latin transliterations in the region. It may well be that > > aside from whatever complexities there may be on the > character-to-character > > level, that there may be different conventions arising in the language(s) > as > > written in different scripts - not to mention that there may still be work > > yet to do in standardizing spellings in either script within any given > > variety of Berber. Dealing with such issues would not be served by > treating > > Tifinagh as anything less than a script in its own right. > > I also believe it but I'm also not sure that Tifinagh -- still not > encoded -- is best served by us waiting until Latin transliterations of > Berber (Chleuh, Kabyle,Tamachek') are harmonized among populations scattered > in many countries. Re the harmonization of Latin transcriptions, I did not mean that that should be a precondition for encoding Tifinagh. It is simply another matter that would seem very useful in its own right, and perhaps interesting if nothing else to discussions of other transcriptions. Actually there are some common aspects in the Latin orthographies used in different countries from what I've casually observed (certainly between Mali and Niger, as a result in large measure of the expert meetings on I mentioned earlier), so this harmonization may be further along than I realize. Don Osborn Bisharat.net
