Hi, I'm a newbie with Unicon, I basically decided to start with it because, well I like learning new languages especially ones with an easily perceived niche. I think the niche of Unicon as you say is text processing.
I use XML a lot in my day to day, I'm not sure I understand the assertion that Unicon would be great for XML, since the main thing one needs for XML programming is easy tree manipulation, such as is provided with XSL-T. I'm hoping you can give me a description of what would make Unicon so great for XML and some examples (or relevant links) since I figure this might help me learn Unicon quicker, being able to relate it to an area in which I have especial expertise. Cheers, Bryan Rasmussen On 3/8/07, Kent Palmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I just saw this thread and I thought I would put my two cents in. > > I use Unicon for searching large texts and reformatting them occasionally. > > When it comes to text manipulation no other language is better than > the Unicon/Icon/Snobol family. > > But I think Ruby is popular because its syntax is elegant, because it > is entirely object oriented, like small talk, because it is a > scripting language like that, and because it has some text processing > features built in like some of the other scripting languages. > > I would like to see some marriage between Ruby and Unicon. > > The idea of making Unicon a DSL on top of Ruby would be very > appealing to me. But I don't know what that would do for performance. > > Both Icon and Ruby have C interfaces. Perhaps there is some way to > marry them via their interfaces. Is that possible? > > I talked to Clint about XML and Unicon several years ago. It seems to > me the advent of XML was a lost opportunity for Unicon. > > Unicon is obviously the best way to deal with XML, but somehow no one > recognized this fact in the larger world. > > Now I think Ruby has displaced any possibility for Unicon to become > popular because it has enough text processing power to make it a good > candidate for that use, plus it has all the other features that makes > it desirable for programmers who believe in object oriented programming. > > I think the object model in Unicon, just like the functional model in > Icon, something added on to the original language idea in Snobol > > The problem is that there are interference between these ideas and > the basic idea of Snobol. > > What was needed was a rethinking of the way that the functional and > object models relate to the fundamental concept of snobol, and the > production of an elegent language that promoted all these various > programming ideas without their interfering with each other. > > When I write Unicon programs I don't use either the functional or the > object ideas, but rather use the string searching directly, i.e. I > use the Snobol Core of the language. It is usually very small > programs I am writing to get at some aspect of the text I am > processing that I cannot get to in any other way. > > This sting searching core, which goes beyond what is available in > other languages is precisely what is needed for XML applications or > anything that has to do with complex string searching within texts or parsing. > > If that was made available in RUBY then that would be excellent. I > don't think the folks who are into Ruby know that there is more to > string searching than what they have currently. > > I would really have liked to see Unicon in the position that Ruby is > in now, but with the advent of Ruby there is no chance of that. Ruby > has one of the most sophisticated and elegant syntaxes of any > programming language to date. That is why people like it so much. > > The Uncon syntax is not that elegant, and so despite its power for > parsing and text manipulation, it cannot have wide appeal. It's power > is too specialized. And everything else it does is just like other languages. > > Ruby on the other hand sets itself apart from other languages by it > over all sophistication and elegance of syntax in every aspect of the > language. > > Anyway this is my two cents on this subject. Sorry it took me so long > to see this thread and respond to it. > > Kent Palmer > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://think.net > > > > > > > At 07:05 AM 10/6/2006, you wrote: > >On 6 Oct 2006, at 15:51, Steve Wampler wrote: > > > I agree! This would be nice. Every so often I think that I'd like to > > > get back into working on some implementation issues, but the current > > > code hurts my brain. I understand the motivations behind the > > > current solution, but that doesn't keep my brain from hurting. > > > (I also agree that such a redesign would be, uh, non-trivial.) > > > >Yes, I tried getting into the JCon code during one of my brief > >infatuations with Java, but that was just as bad. > >Another idea that might be fun (but not even vaguely justifiable) > >would be to implement Icon as a DSL in Ruby, and then build Unicon on > >top of that. I find the idea of running up an Unicon application > >inside Rails sick enough to be appealing >8D > > > > > Some form of threading ('live co-expressions', perhaps?) would be > > > wonderful. I'd like to see it designed right, however, and not just > > > another "let's throw POSIX threads in" solution. It would be fun > > > to talk about possible approaches and what would fit well in Unicon. > > > >That's the biggest problem - how to do it naturally. I don't really > >like the threading models most languages use anyway, as they're too > >concerned with flow of control and not enough with generation of > >expressions - perhaps the best approach would be to extend the > >monitoring/profiling extensions in some way although I've not played > >with them enough to be certain. Or else some kind of parallel > >generator which kicks out more than one result at the same time but > >thinking about that's making my brain feel weird. > > > >Ellie > > > > > >Eleanor McHugh > >-- > >http://eleanor.goth-chic.org/ > >http://feyeleanor.livejournal.com/ > > > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT > >Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your > >opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash > >http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV > >_______________________________________________ > >Unicon-group mailing list > >Unicon-group@lists.sourceforge.net > >https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/unicon-group > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT > Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your > opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash > http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV > _______________________________________________ > Unicon-group mailing list > Unicon-group@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/unicon-group > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV _______________________________________________ Unicon-group mailing list Unicon-group@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/unicon-group
