My previous email decided to "fly" before I was done :) .... here is the
results:
Objecticon: 9.7 seconds
Unicon: 12.3 seconds.
The context switch is 27% faster in Objecticon, I actually expected a lot
bigger difference.
To get a feel of the interpreter loop performance in both languages I ran
this program:
procedure main()
every 1 to 200000000
end
Objecticon: 17.0 seconds
Unicon: 11.9 seconds.
Unicon is 43% faster. These were quick tests, so number should not be taken
literally, I just wanted to get a quick reference point.
Cheers,
Jafar
On Sat, Apr 30, 2016 at 12:58 PM, Jafar Al-Gharaibeh <to.ja...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Here are some information about Objecticon co-expressions including
> difference in semantics compared with Icon/Unicon:
> http://objecticon.sourceforge.net/Coexpressions.html
>
> And here is another link with a brief discussion about the implementation
> of co-expressions:
> http://objecticon.sourceforge.net/ImplementationNotes.html
>
>
> I'm not familiar with ObjectIcon implementation to say much about it, but
> from the discussion in the above link, co-expressions seems to be a lot
> cheaper in term of memory requirement (no stack), and in context switch
> performance (no recursive call to the interpreter). Co-expression stack in
> Unicon is configurable so you can reduce the memory requirement if the
> application uses a lot of "little" co-expressions, but still a stack is
> needed.
>
> On the performance front of context switch, while a recursive call to the
> interpreter is needed, it only takes place once at the first activation so
> it is not really a problem in this case. There is however some state that
> needs to be saved/restored, both c state and interpreter state. With
> native coswitch in Unicon that we have in all common platforms now
> (recently added Mac OS and ARM Linux) the cosiwtch is "fast". I decided to
> test how "slow" Unicon's context switch compared to the
> stackless/non-recursive implementation of co-expressions in Object Icon. I
> built both on my Raspberry Pi (No graphics in both, and concurrency turned
> off in the case of Unicon). Here is the program that I tested:
>
> procedure main()
>
> c := create 1 to 20000000
>
> while @c
>
> end
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 8:01 PM, Bruce & Breeanna Rennie <
> bren...@dcsi.net.au> wrote:
>
>> Good morning Jay and Steve,
>>
>> It is a personal project to understand the difference between Unicon and
>> ObjectIcon. My reasons are related to the co-expression implementation
>> differences and the fact that ObjectIcon is a no recursive interpreter
>> (unlike Unicon). My original reason for looking at both is that I am
>> looking at a reimplementation of the icon runtime as a indirect threaded
>> form. I have been puzzling about this for many years but, it has only
>> been in recent times that I have the extra time to look at these things.
>>
>> My investigations should, at this point, have no bearing on what Jafar
>> is doing. As far as I can tell, I am the only one looking at the
>> implementation differences. As I am NOT a c programmer, I am also having
>> to look at the implementation as a novice. I have always found c as
>> being a hodge podge in terms of a language. But that is really neither
>> here nor there.
>>
>> At this point, I can't give any real comment on either implementation
>> with respect to threads, co-expressions and efficiency.
>>
>> regards
>>
>> Bruce Rennie
>>
>> On 30/04/16 02:37, Jay Hammond wrote:
>> > Robert Parlett developed Objecticon.
>> >
>> > https://rosettacode.org/wiki/Category:ObjectIcon
>> >
>> > and
>> >
>> > http://objecticon.sourceforge.net/
>> >
>> > say a bit about it.
>> >
>> > From a long time ago maybe 8 years, I seem to remember there being
>> > discussion in this group about a different co-expression implementation
>> > in Objecticon being more efficient at threads, co-expressions than the
>> > then Unicon one.
>> >
>> > There was of course also a downside to that approach. There always are
>> > compromises.
>> >
>> > If it's not too much of a distraction, would Bruce and or Jafar care
>> > to comment on where
>> > Unicon (and Objecticon) are now wrt threads, co-expressions, efficiency?
>> >
>> > jay
>> >
>> > On 29/04/2016 17:04, Steve Graham wrote:
>> >> ObjectIcon?
>> >>
>> >>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> *From:* Bruce & Breeanna Rennie <bren...@dcsi.net.au>
>> >> *To:* Jafar Al-Gharaibeh <to.ja...@gmail.com>
>> >> *Cc:* Unicon group <unicon-group@lists.sourceforge.net>
>> >> *Sent:* Thursday, April 28, 2016 8:35 PM
>> >> *Subject:* Re: [Unicon-group] Soft thread changes
>> >>
>> >> Good afternoon Jafar,
>> >>
>> >> As I am able I'll have a look and see if I can add anything of worth
>> for
>> >> the implementation. The idea sounds good. At the moment I am still
>> >> trying to wrap my head around the differences between Unicon and
>> >> ObjectIcon implementation details.
>> >>
>> >> regards
>> >>
>> >> Bruce Rennie
>> >>
>> >> On 29/04/16 12:21, Jafar Al-Gharaibeh wrote:
>> >> > Good Morning Bruce,
>> >> >
>> >> > Soft-threads ( software threads or maybe vs hard-threads) are a
>> hybrid
>> >> > between native co-expressions and threads made possible by my recent
>> >> > changes to allow native coswitch() to coexist with concurrent
>> threads.
>> >> > They are similar to native co-expressions in that they are completely
>> >> > a Unicon thing (no OS context, i.e can't be scheduled by the OS), but
>> >> > they are similar to threads in that they are concurrent. Since a soft
>> >> > thread doesn't have a pthread (OS context) it needs to be scheduled
>> >> > "manually". Unlike co-expressions which get scheduled via an explicit
>> >> > activation, soft threads are managed implicitly by the language's
>> >> > runtime. That means we need a scheduler that takes care of this new
>> >> > task with all of the problems that comes with it. :)
>> >> >
>> >> > The goal is allow us to create a lot of "cheap" concurrent threads
>> >> > even without creating pthreads, or get by with a few pthreads through
>> >> > thread pooling, etc. The idea is to decouple Unicon's threads from
>> the
>> >> > the OS threads.
>> >> >
>> >> > What I have committed so far under "SoftThread" ifdefs is very very
>> >> > basic experimental implementation that I did in under two hours. I
>> >> > got some basic scheduling to work and was able to run a small demo.
>> We
>> >> > have a long a long way to go. If anyone is interested in this or
>> >> > helping with implementation I'd be very happy to share more details
>> >> > with them.
>> >> >
>> >> > Cheers,
>> >> > Jafar
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 8:25 PM, Bruce & Breeanna Rennie
>> >> > <bren...@dcsi.net.au <mailto:bren...@dcsi.net.au>
>> >> <mailto:bren...@dcsi.net.au <mailto:bren...@dcsi.net.au>>> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > Good morning Jafar,
>> >> >
>> >> > Can you clue us into what the soft-thread changes are for, please?
>> >> >
>> >> > regards
>> >> >
>> >> > Bruce Rennie
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Unicon-group mailing list
>> >> Unicon-group@lists.sourceforge.net
>> >> <mailto:Unicon-group@lists.sourceforge.net>
>> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/unicon-group
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
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>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/unicon-group
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>>
>>
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