Dear Mr. Nicolary, About five years ago I read one of Dr. Sowell's books on race. (:In Matters Of Race")
It is true that I haven't read any of his other books, but rather a few other articles written by him. I agree with his statement that racial preferences does indeed breed resentment, although not for the same reasons he does. If one feels one is entitled to whatever they want just by being who they are and all the power and privileges thereunto appertaining, is suddenly forced to share by government edict with those deemed not only undeserving, but also not in the same league, yes there would be resentment. On the other hand if you are not granted opportunities because of who you are and constantly see others get them that may also breed resentment. It is interesting that you bring up "Affirmative Action Around the World" of which their is no such thing. What I believe you are referring to is domination of one group and oppression of another. It's interesting that you would substitute term "whites" for the ethnic designations of the dominant groups in Asia and Nigeria in West Africa. It is almost as if you have conceded to the fact that dominance and power is akin to "whiteness" in Non-European ethnic groups with regard to political, social and economic oppression and domination of others. When I said the term African-American White Supremist to refer to Dr. Sowell, what I meant is he is a person of color who is working to preserve the interests of white over color political status quo. He is an ally for that political agenda and lauded by whites for being so. The only people who are "wrong" are those like me who hold a different point of view and are labeled troublemakers by the dominant group. "Actually, you were telling _me_ what to call someone ignorant meant - I was only correcting you as you were in error. And yes, you are espousing to know the theories of Dr. Sowell enough to make the statements you have made when you clearly have not even bothered to read his work even in summary form can also be expressed in terms of you lacking knowledge on the subject." Actually I never espoused any of Dr. Sowell's theories or professed to know all of them; rather I gave my opinion of his politics and what I consider them to be. I never said I was an expert on Dr. Sowell or his theories, just what damage his politics can do. If you ask a person to "look it up" you are doing more that correcting someone but intimating in an insulting manner that they are somehow a bit stupid, and that's nicest way I can put that. "You really prefer inferring what someone is saying or what someone is implying to what they are actually saying, don't you? I said what I said - the only implications I was making was that you are not seeing clearly as a direct result of you having never taken the time formulate an informed opinion. I mean - at least give the guy a trial before you condemn him." I believe that is exactly what you did by putting words in my mouth about me professing to know all about Dr. Sowell and then setting out to prove I was an idiot with regards to remarks I have never made. I just think you went ballistic because your blissful existence and "rightness" was disturbed by a point of view so diametrically opposed to your own, that you imposed the subject where it heretofore hadn't existed (i.e. me professing to know ALL about Dr. Sowell and wrongly espousing his political theories.) By your manner of communication and comments , you have not convinced me yet of anything contrary to the assertion made that Dr. Sowell's political stance is strongly favored by whites who feel they are superior and more qualified than any person of color who taking away from them what they deserve by means of affirmative Action. Not that he doesn't have the right to feel this way, but I also have to the to disagree. "I never said you had become unglued - just that you seem unable to admit that despite the fact that you know little about Dr. Sowell's writings you still maintain a rather charged and caustic opinion of him. If you have taken on "a very difficult subject that I know bucks the mainstream trend" why am I the only one to challenge you?" Hate to burst your bubble, but you are not and have not been the only person to challenge me about this. I understand quite well that statements about Dr. Sowell's political stance's impact on minority community, touches at the very heart and soul of who you believe yourself to be and world view. That's hard to take, I well understand that. I also feel it good for one to look at another's point of view once and a while without seeking to dismiss it, berate it or invalidate. What was it that William Shakespeare wrote,"There are more things in Heaven and Earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy." -Hamlet "Actually, I think you would be pleasantly surprised to find that a lot of people would agree with you - and like you have never read a single significant piece of literature actually written by him in his own words. The simple concept that a black man could be against affirmative action is crime enough for condemnation - all other considerations aside." Whatever you may say the implication here is that those of us who do not agree with Dr. Sowell are woefully bereft because the only reason we could POSSIBLY not agree with his politics is because we haven't read any of his books or theories. "I don't believe in mincing words. If you feel the need to be engaged in a coddled manner after making an arrogant statements such as yours you shouldn't utter them in a public forum." One thing I can safely say about this exchange is that I have not been coddled by you or anyone else. I have withstood your remarks with a degree of self-control that even I find to be amazing. "If you feel mistreated by my words then how do you think Dr. Sowell feels whenever someone such as yourself reduces his life's work down to a statement like: "he is an African-American white supremist"?" Again, I have not condemned Dr. Sowell's entire life's work or anything of the sort, only his political stance and how it effects communities of color because it is so positively embraced by whites. However, on a hypothetical level, I suppose one could feel as if one's whole life's experiences and worldview were invalidated, belittled, and maligned as mine have been during this exchange. I still thank you for writing, though. -Wilma On 4/22/04 10:26 AM, "Samuel Nicolary" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Thu, 22 Apr 2004, Wilma de Soto wrote: > >> >> Dear Mr. Nicolary, >> >> >> Never once did I attribute those statements to Dr. Sowell. What I said was >> I considered him to be an African-American white supremist. >> >> The statement I made was attributed to comments I have read and heard over >> and over made by whites concerning Affirmative Action. >> >> Whenever someone declares, " A less qualified minority got the job", it >> infers that anyone who got a job instead of a white person was inferior >> whether or not it can be proven. More often than not it is not proven, but >> accepted as true because of their perception. > > Then I guess you agree with Dr. Sowell then that racial preference breeds > resentment and this is a very negative consequence, right? > > The idea that you feel you can simply dismiss Dr. Sowell as "an > African-American white supremist" illustrates that you are _ignorant_ of > the statements and conclusions Dr. Sowell has made after in depth study > and analysis of the practice of racial preference within a variety of > cultures. > > If you had read "Affirmative Action Around the World: An Empirical Study" > instead of forming your opinion from second hand sources you would know > that his field of analysis included studying affirmative action in India, > Malaysia, Sri Lanka, Nigeria, and the United States and the negative > impact it invariably had in causing racial conflict not harmony. > > In India, the "minorities" were the the "lower" or "scheduled" castes > which makes up 3/4 of the population and the "whites" are the "upper" > castes. In Malaysia, the "minorities" are the Malays which are, in fact, > the majority and the "whites" are the Chinese. In Sri Lanka, the > "minorities" were again the majority population - the Sinhalese - and the > Tamils this time playing the role of the "whites". In Nigeria, racial > preference has been practiced by every prevailing administration toward one > or another tribe and/or ethnic group since they became a nation. In the > United States, he explores our own flavor of "racial preference", the > mixed consequences and the resultant similarities with the other > countries. > > If you are going to take the stance that he is a white supremacist he must > also be a Brahmin/Chinese/Tamil/"Nigerian flavor of the day" supremacist > by your logic. > >> "No, it means you are lacking knowledge. Look it up. My determination >> is based on the assumptions you put forth about this individual and how >> incongruous they are with actuality." >> >> Here again, you assert that I said these statements were made by Dr. Sowell. >> You also infer that my knowledge is limited (all of us could stand to learn >> more, always) and my vocabulary is stunted. > > Actually, you were telling _me_ what to call someone ignorant meant - I > was only correcting you as you were in error. And yes, you are espousing > to know the theories of Dr. Sowell enough to make the statements you have > made when you clearly have not even bothered to read his work even in > summary form can also be expressed in terms of you lacking knowledge on > the subject. > >> I feel the true offense I may have committed to your sensibilities is that I >> dared suggest that perhaps the world is not as you thought it was. I >> maintain there is room for many points of view, even yours. > > Your point of view offends me only because it is woefully incomplete and > uninformed. > >> " I think your interpretation of his writings are distorted by your >>> underdeveloped black and white view of the world." >> >> Here I receive this comment as implying that if one does not agree with your >> world view, then one is not only wrong, but hopelessly distorted. > > You really prefer inferring what someone is saying or what someone is > implying to what they are actually saying, don't you? I said what I said > - the only implications I was making was that you are not seeing clearly > as a direct result of you having never taken the time formulate an > informed opinion. I mean - at least give the guy a trial before you > condemn him. > >> That in my opinion,is a comment thrown down from "Mt. Superior" to the poor >> underlings below. One cannot possibly believe that everyone's life >> experiences are going to be the same. > > What does this have to do with anything? > >> "I have a feeling that no matter how your ignorance is communicated to you >>> you are going to take it as disrespectful because you can't emotionally >>> handle or consider the possibility that you are being ignorant or are >>> wrong." >> >> What I take to be disrespectful is disrespect itself. I have not become >> emotionally unglued during this exchange, quite the contrary. I have taken >> on a very difficult subject that I know bucks the mainstream trend. > > I never said you had become unglued - just that you seem unable to admit > that despite the fact that you know little about Dr. Sowell's writings > you still maintain a rather charged and caustic opinion of him. If you > have taken on "a very difficult subject that I know bucks the mainstream > trend" why am I the only one to challenge you? > > Actually, I think you would be pleasantly surprised to find that a lot of > people would agree with you - and like you have never read a single > significant piece of literature actually written by him in his own words. > The simple concept that a black man could be against affirmative action is > crime enough for condemnation - all other considerations aside. > >> I have undertaken it alone, without any support from others even though >> there may be those who would agree with, but would prefer to share it >> offline. > > and??? > >> I have not resorted to name-calling or belittling. I have kept a cool head >> through all the insults etc. If that is not the case, would please someone >> point it out to me where I have become emotionally unglued and abusive and I >> would apologize. > > I don't believe in mincing words. If you feel the need to be engaged in a > coddled manner after making an arrogant statements such as yours you > shouldn't utter them in a public forum. > > If you feel mistreated by my words then how do you think Dr. Sowell feels > whenever someone such as yourself reduces his life's work down to a > statement like: "he is an African-American white supremist"? > > -- > Sam Nicolary > >> On 4/21/04 9:00 PM, "Samuel Nicolary" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >>> On Wed, 21 Apr 2004, Wilma de Soto wrote: >>> >>>> Dear Mr. Nicolary, >>>> >>>> If people believe that the inferior and less qualified minorities take jobs >>>> from more qualified whites, and Dr. Sowell and others support this >>>> assertion, then it would stand to reason that people feel livelihoods are >>>> being stolen from superior and more qualified whites. >>>> >>>> If the assumption is that ALL whites are more qualified than ANY black >>>> person, this assumption denotes white superiority. >>> >>> I think the only assumptions being made here are by you. I challenge you >>> to produce a SINGLE statement from Dr. Sowell stating that "ALL whites are >>> more qualified than ANY black person". >>> >>>> Calling a person ignorant has no other value than to debase and demean one >>>> who may holds these views. >>> >>> No, it means you are lacking knowledge. Look it up. My determination is >>> based on the assumptions you put forth about this individual and how >>> incongruous they are with actuality. >>> >>>> Perhaps, you feel that the term 'white supremacist' is a pejorative term, >>>> and in some contexts it may jolly well may be, but I consider it to be a >>>> political reality. I also consider this to be something people would >>>> rather >>>> avoid as part of their politics while upholding the same sentiments. >>> >>> I think your interpretation of his writings are distorted by your >>> underdeveloped black and white view of the world. >>> >>>> Lastly, I realize it is hard to disagree and that one's point of view of >>>> the >>>> world being opposed by others is difficult. I still feel that >>>> communication >>>> can still be respectful; especially in our community. >>> >>> I have a feeling that no matter how your ignorance is communicated to you >>> you are going to take it as disrespectful because you can't emotionally >>> handle or consider the possibility that you are being ignorant or are >>> wrong. >>> >>> -- >>> Sam Nicolary ---- You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive information, see <http://www.purple.com/list.html>.
