In other words, those maps, defining West and Southwest Philadelphia,
are meaningless. The parts of those two areas that comprise UCity are
not W & SW Philly at all, but exclusively UCity. That appears to be
what you're saying.
I'd like to point out that I never said I liked or dislike the signs.
In fact, I think they're stupid and typical of a type of thinking I
find laughable. On the other hand, I'm glad they anger some people
enough that they have to write lengthy posts about why they're
invalid. It's indeed a pose but some people, myself included, are
offended when people use them as local color to sell real estate
because they will probably eventually be priced out of a neighborhood
they love.
I was just trying to point out that the signs were indeed in W.
Philly, not SW., and I think the evidence is on my side. In fact, if
you look at the "neighborhoods" section of the PCPC document (page
39, absolute page 45) University City ends at 40th St. Can you show
me where "the City" defines UCity, W. Philly or SW. Philly in other
ways than they do in these maps? I don't understand why you think
these maps make the signs invalid and that *is* exactly what you
said. "So if the City's map is the final arbiter, then the 'marketing
scheme" signs are invalid,' and then you go on to give a reason that
has nothing to do with the maps. I don't get it.
Frank
On Apr 3, 2007, at 01:44 AM, Anthony West wrote:
No, Frank.
The City does not define the marketing signs as falling in West
Philadelphia or Southwest Philadelphia; the City defines the
marketing signs as falling in University City. So if the City's map
is the final arbiter, then the "marketing scheme" signs are
invalid. University City is absolutely real at the level of public
administration. It can only be challenged on a historical or
sociological level. It has not been challenged very knowledgeably,
that's my gist.
The people who bray "University City" is a dirty word, are
classical examples of UC neighborhood culture themselves for the
most part. This "West Philly" pose is just an affectation. The
people who printed those stickers couldn't tell the 4th Ward from
the 32nd Ward. "West Philly" is just a marketing slogan for their
brand of scatterbrained leftwing politics, as "University City" was
for an earlier era of realtors. Over all, though, UC is more
descriptive and more truthful at this time, so it will probably
prevail.
-- Tony West
----- Original Message -----
From: Frank
To: Anthony West ; [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 12:54 AM
Subject: Re: [UC] New Marketing Campaign
All this because you disagree with the City's map?
Referring to the beginning of this thread, the "marketing scheme"
signs are indeed in West Philly.
Frank
On Apr 2, 2007, at 11:51 PM, Anthony West wrote:
The final answer is there is no final answer. The City has its own
Neighborhood Map, which is intended to be a practical guide to
planners and community groups. It recognizes University City,
because duh, it exists now. Thus it pushes away from UC terms like
"West Philly" and "Southwest Philly", so they can be used to
distinguish other tracts of land. There's no law that says folks
have to pay attention to this map if it honks them off.
And it completely ignores the nesting phenomenon, which is very
real in social geography. We live in hierarchies of neighborhoods,
which we deploy variously according to the context of discussion.
For instance: I live in West Philadelphia, in University City, in
Spruce Hill. Which placename I use depends on whom I'm talking to
and what I'm talking about. No law says I have to be consistent.
No law says lower-level neighborhoods can't overlap higher-level
boundaries.
About West vs. Southwest, my best guess is the latter term emerged
with clarity only after Philadelphia grew beyond Blockley
Township, whose western border was Mill Creek up as far as
Baltimore Pk. Beyond Mill Creek lay Kingsessing Township, which
ran all the way to Darby Creek. "Kingsessing" is still used as a
neighborhood name today (it is recorded in the Swedish period, ca.
1650, and reflects a Lenape designation for the land at and above
Darby Creek along the Schuylkill or "Manayunk" River).
Originally, "West Philadelphia" was a name for the mid-19th-c.
urbanization of Blockley Twp., out as far as Maylandville on Mill
Creek (roughly 43rd St. today). So Woodlands lay in West Philly.
But Clark-Park-to-be was the boundary of West Philly. As
urbanization proceeded, "West Philly" expanded westward along
Market St. and Lancaster Ave. But the expansion into Kingsessing
Twp. along Darby Pk. (Woodland Ave.) was felt to be a
different neighborhood, which came to be called "Southwest Philly".
University City contains territory that historically belongs to
both West and Southwest Philadelphia.
-- Tony West
Ross wrote:
Actually, I've been worrying about this Southwest/West Philly
business for some time. What are the "actual" boundaries, and
according to whom? You seem to imply that SOBA is Southwest Philly
-- if the 34 trolley line really does bifurcate the two. Does that
mean that Woodland Cemetery and Clark Park are actually in SW?
Seems counterintuitive, dude. Got maps?
