"I'm writing more because your "PS" is intended to turn the discussion personal. You have often accused Tony West of this very tactic in the past."
Not at all. I’ve been reporting about public hearings for the Penn hotel since the plan was first exposed. I conveyed to you that the Penn development team testified to a government commission that you were a hotel supporter (in front of 50 or more people). False testimony of support for this hotel has been occurring since the beginning! I have no idea if you were aware of the claims or testimony! The Penn team has been claiming that they have overwhelming support of the community and have presented at this whole series of open public forums. Do you see why I am suspicious? I meant no disrespect to you when I said they were using you as a poster boy. If that is what makes you angry, please understand that was not my meaning. It was completely an insult to the Penn team. I don’t care who is a supporter of the hotel. But with all of the false testimony; however, everyone identified must be told. I will help you make a complaint if the testimony was in anyway false! But if you are a hotel supporter, it would be completely unfair of you to call my reporting personal. If a government commission is hearing public testimony that you are a hotel supporter, it is not "getting personal" for me to reveal that to the list. I certainly respect people’s privacy, but I don’t believe that any support offered in public testimony should be a secret matter kept from the public. So, I don’t understand your anger unless you misunderstood my insult of the Penn team? Here is what I said: "PS: Guy, did you know that your name was used in testimony to the Philadelphia City Planning Commission? It seems that since the reputation of the SHCA and UCHS is in the toilet, you are to be a new poster boy in support of the hotel. Thought you should know." _____________________________________________________________________________ You said: "Sorry, I misunderstood your original post. I thought it asked for thoughtful alternative opinions." No misunderstanding about that, I did ask for thoughtful alternative opinions. As I thought about responding, I was unsure of how to respond. Did I need to explain that creating a false position for me did not refute any point that I made or that anyone might infer? Or should I debate from this false position? Or should I ignore you. I’m not sure each time someone does not understand the problem with such debate. The straw man is used so routinely. A year ago, the straw man fallacy was the norm on this list. I found it led to very unpleasant destruction of civil discourse. If you want to refute something, you need to start with the person’s actual positions and words. Then you construct a counter argument. If you want to change the subject, you can say so, or you can start a new writing to make your own point. But if you start by assigning absurd positions to your opponent, it hurts your entire position. So it’s not a "thoughtful alternative point of view," but your technique that got a harsh response. It's hard to say what an appropriate response would be. I don’t know you and maybe I am overly harsh. There has been so much trickery around this neighborhood. I’ve lost a bit of gentleness. I think we have been watching bad communication so long that it has many effects. Think about my points and I’ll think about being too harsh. Glenn ----- Original Message ----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [email protected] Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 7:16 PM Subject: Re: Revitalization or white flight ideology? Glen, Not sure I follow your comprehensive "History of White Flight and it's effect on Public Schooling". It seems a bit short for the period of time that it covers. I'll assume it is correct and thus I agree with all of it. I'm writing more because your "PS" is intended to turn the discussion personal. You have often accused Tony West of this very tactic in the past. Sorry, I misunderstood your original post. I thought it asked for thoughtful alternative opinions. I'll return to lurking. -----Original Message----- From: Glenn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [email protected] Sent: Mon, 26 May 2008 10:18 am Subject: Revitalization or white flight ideology? Guy, now that we got the straw man thing covered; I’ll respond to your previous post. For decades, the overall urban infrastructure crumbled and urban public schools were squeezed to the breaking point. The upper middle class demands welfare and so we tightened our belts to build infrastructure to the suburbs and then exurbs with money collected from the commoners. Now, corporate America realizes that re-urbanization is a reality because of the oil. The same ideology that gave rise to "white flight" now guides this new urbanization called "revitalization." When the higher middle classes thought a paradise awaited in the suburbs, they were willing to "write-off" the cities. Of course, we can all understand the individual desire to find a good school. But the ideology demanded writing off everyone else left behind. A callous society developed, and the cities and lots of people were hurt badly for decades. Also, it was stupid! The ideology said that the desires of the few powerful outweighed the needs of the many. And a "why should I care attitude" was instilled throughout society and shaped funding priorities in public education. The most disadvantaged villagers were falsely called villains and were accused of causing all of the problems in society. Philadelphia, New York, etc. would be left to rot and become huge armed and enclosed prison camps. This was to be the system to guarantee a middle class suburban paradise. Cloaking all relevant issues with a web of unrelenting propaganda does not support the paradise myths. It simply means that a lot of powerful people work very hard to create myths, misdirection and lies. The suburban myth didn’t work, why on earth will the UCD myth work?????? The migration to the suburbs saw the forests and farmlands destroyed. Now, it is the urban community and the poor who must be paved over in order to prepare for the new suburbanized urban paradise. There would be no need for all the lies if this "revitalization" was not the same contemptible and failed ideology that defined "middle class flight." Let me paraphrase the real corporate Penn message to the people of Philadelphia, "shut up and get the hell out of our new paradise!" Since the description I just gave seems unpalatable, corporate Penn needs an entire system to cloak the truth, manipulate people, and demand the right to conflict of interest for the few. Guy, that is what corporate Penn is doing. The schools are part of a real estate scheme! The Penn agenda is nothing more than a business plan! All of the stuff about partnership, community engagement, commitment to public education is all obfuscation to make people cling to and gamble on trickle down economics under Penn plutocratic rule- Rule of the trustees where helpless consumers claw their way to paradise! Since these things only support a business plan, the claims otherwise are meant to deceive, silence and confuse. Penn has every right to push its business plan. I have every right to point out that their propaganda is nothing but garbage. Sincerely, Glenn PS: Guy, did you know that your name was used in testimony to the Philadelphia City Planning Commission? It seems that since the reputation of the SHCA and UCHS is in the toilet, you are to be a new poster boy in support of the hotel. Thought you should know. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Stay informed, get connected and more with AOL on your phone. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.24.1/1466 - Release Date: 5/25/2008 6:49 PM
