The fact is that, "The evidence indicates that homosexually oriented males account for more than half of male youth suicide problems, but mainstream suicidologists generally continue to ignore this aspect of the problem." http://www.youth-suicide.com/gay-bisexual/ In other words if a teen male kills himself, it is a 50:50 chance that they are gay or questioning. So yes, the messages about sexual orientation that teens get are important. Jim* * On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 10:36 AM, <[email protected]> wrote:
> I agree with you on several points. Yes to sexual 'identity' becomes fixed, > for many people, before 18. But what I expressed was a hope that sexual > action be delayed. And by extension, that scouting be a safe haven for peers > of any sexual identity. And in reality, I happily suspect sex is not yet on > the table for most of our boys. I also agree regarding the hypocrisies of > many major religions. Again, it is complicated. I am a Mass attending > Catholic, even as I feel our lack of women in power defines a clear > prejudice against me and mine. Again, I work for change, within a structure > that suits me more than not. > I hope all have a joyfilled day and carry your hope of greater tolerance > into their behaviors today. > > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T > ------------------------------ > *From: * [email protected] > *Sender: * [email protected] > *Date: *Tue, 14 Sep 2010 13:56:13 +0000 > *To: *[email protected]<[email protected]>; <[email protected]> > *ReplyTo: * [email protected] > *Cc: *<[email protected]>; <[email protected]> > *Subject: *Re: [UC] Boy Scouts... delayed > > Liz, > I do not doubt your commitment to supporting diversity and totally trust > your intentions. It is shocking that an organisation like this can be all > the things you mention yet discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation > and somehow suggest that homosexual equates to inferior and unworthy of > being a mentor. I disagree with your comment on age and sexual identity as > young adults most definitely have likely developed their sexual identity > well before their 18th birthday and may be quite confused about it. Although > scouts are not about that journey it does not have to be a place where some > may feel unwelcome because of the "culture" that the adults in charge have > fostered. None of us are perfect ethically or morally(or grammatically). I > just do not understand the hypocrisy of religion and those that profess it. > Frank > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > ------------------------------ > *From: * "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > *Sender: * [email protected] > *Date: *Tue, 14 Sep 2010 06:16:10 GMT > *To: *<[email protected]> > *ReplyTo: * "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > *Cc: *<[email protected]>; <[email protected]> > *Subject: *[UC] Boy Scouts... delayed > > > Please forgive me for the belated reentry into this discussion. I got > slammed by "back-to-school" for family and with housing needs. > > I know that my choice to enroll our son may have offended many dear > friends, and I hope they believe I will continue to advocate for change from > within. I hope for and work toward equal opportunity in many areas, > including in conversations with my children and other kids that I mentor. > > Jim's point about people "in the mainstream" works in many directions. > > My experience of scouting at the local level is that many of the children > are not in the "mainstream". > Scouting helps inner city kids gain access: > to safe, well supervised pools > scholarships for and transportation to amazing camps > dedicated leaders > friends across religious, class and color lines. > Children of professors meet and cooperate with orphans. Recent immigrants > exchange recipes, idioms and cultural information with multi-generation > Americans. The families with cars provide rides and those without cars make > other contributions. Scout meetings are a place where the "Catholics", > "Publics", "Privates" and "Home Schooled" meet on equal ground. The > meetings and outings provide many benefits that can not be easily replicated > in time to best provide opportunities to the generation coming up, in west > Philly today. > > My experience of the local leaders is they are generally compassionate, > fair-minded people and NOT homo-phobic. > > The Scouts are seen as children and scout meetings are not where these > painful debates take place. > On the rare occasions when children might overhear leader conversation > regarding the offensive policy (e.g. during the recent law-suit), they would > probably learn that their specific leaders and the Philadelphia leadership > is against the national policy. > > I look at the best men I know, and many have benefited from the experience > of scouting. This includes many of my gay friends. > > Scouting ends with the 18th birthday. > In my ideal world, sexual acts would be off the table for children under 18 > and children would not be made pawns in the agendas of politicized adults. > > Bottom line for me, is I am not prepared to dismiss the opportunities that > scouting gives inner city kids, unless and until equal opportunities can be > made available to our kids. > > I chose to believe that reasonable policies will ultimately prevail. > Further, I believe that some of today's scout will grow up gay. > I believe most of the kids, (straight and gay), will take much of value > from their scouting experiences. > I believe the experiences of childhood form the adult, and that scouting, > especially in our diverse, SFDS troop, can help kids become more tolerant > adults. > > Meanwhile the contra-contributions of Jim and Dan and Frank voice the > realities that anger, pain, sorrow and alienation are the fruits of > prejudice. I hope we all grow in cooperation and compassion and that > children who have the greatest needs, (or most to give), are not turned away > from scouting by fear or prejudice or social stigma. > > > Best! > Liz > > > > > ---------- Original Message ---------- > From: Jim Cummings <[email protected]> > Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 16:24: -0400 > > Dan points out an interesting perspective: people in the "mainstream" have > the privledge of deciding when to go with their values and when to ignore so > as to get on with life. If you are part of oppressed group waiting until the > world will treat you with justice can get in the way of having a life. The > Philly Boy Scouts have said that they do not discriminate on sexual > orientation despite being part of an atavistic national organization. > and I have never witnessed Brain being smug. > Jim > > On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 4:11 PM, Dan Widyono <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Greetings Frank, >> >> That's a very large leap and assumption of the motives of any parent who >> enrolls their child, although I'm aware of the source of your concern. �I >> myself am displeased with the BSA's continuing stance against openly >> supporting homosexuals as a first-class part of our society. �However, I >> do >> not begrudge those who are seeking to enrich all the other areas of their >> boys' lives through a mostly healthy and social-outreach oriented group. >> >> Perhaps when they finally accept as part of their "list of official >> religions" any religion which openly promotes acceptance of homosexuals >> and >> actively campaigns against groups which discriminate on this basis, will I >> feel better about enrolling my son. �Only then will he also feel that our >> religion is not worse, or wrong, or not accepted by another group that he >> admires. >> >> Even now, though, I do applaud all the positive work that they accomplish. >> >> Dan W. >> >> >> On Thu, Sep 02, 2010 at 07:35:30PM +0000, [email protected] wrote: >> > � �I recommend that if you want to promote bigotry and homophobia then >> by all >> > � �means join the boy scouts! >> > � �Frank Sarlo >> > >> > � �Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry >> > >> > � >> �--------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > >> > � �From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> >> > � �Sender: [email protected] >> > � �Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 18:25:51 GMT >> > � �To: <[email protected]>; <[email protected]>; >> > � �<[email protected]> >> > � �ReplyTo: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> >> > � �Subject: [UC] Boy Scouts recruiting for new members as the new >> School-year >> > � �begins >> > >> > � �I noticed signs are posted to recruit Boy Scouts and thought I'd >> volunteer >> > � �that my experiences with the program at St. Francis de Sales were >> mostly >> > � �wonderful. �I recommend that parents investigate and consider >> enrolling >> > � �their sons. �The link provided was [1]www.BeAScout.org >> > >> > � �The De Sales Scouts meet as follows: >> > � � � � � � � �Cub Pack 352 on Fridays from 7 PM-8:30 PM >> > � � � � � � � �Boy Troop 152 on Wednesdays from 7 PM-8:30 PM >> > � �Show up a few minutes early to meet leaders, introduce your kid and >> sample >> > � �a meeting. >> > � �De Sales troops have been culturally, ethnically, racially and >> religiously >> > � �diverse. �The boys have benefited from experience of inter-dependence >> > � �and finding common ground. >> > >> > � �Cub Scouting is for boys in the first through fifth grades, or (ages >> 7-10 >> > � �if home-schooled). >> > � �Each Boy must join with an adult who will attend meetings and >> activities >> > � �and share leadership responsibilities. �Cubbing strengthens family >> > � �relationships, introduces boys to a community beyond school, and >> helps >> > � �build character, citizenship training, fitness and life skills. >> > >> > � �Boy Scouting is for boys who are 11-18, (or at least 10 and completed >> > � �fifth grade or earned the Arrow of Light Award). >> > � �Boys experience vigorous outdoor activities, including 4-season >> camping. >> > � �They rotate peer leadership responsibilities. They pursue merit >> badges in >> > � �the process developing skills and acquiring experiences that range >> from >> > � �using tools to planning trips and agendas, to chairing meetings. �In >> past >> > � �years the scouts of St. Francis de Sales have enjoyed outdoor >> activities >> > � �including Biking, Climbing, Geo-caching, Hiking, and Scuba-Diving, >> > � �Swimming. Scouts also team up to help Eagle Candidates complete >> projects >> > � �that serve our community. �In recent years this included building and >> > � �stocking a Library for homeless families, promoting recycling, >> converting >> > � �a littered lot into a beautiful community garden, running an >> inclusive >> > � �public Halloween event and creating an incentive program for children >> with >> > � �Diabetes. >> > >> > � �Venturing is coed, for high School kids and teens, (13-19). I am not >> sure >> > � �if SFDS still has an active Venture troop. �But I know some local >> girls >> > � �who had some remarkable adventures (including learning to juggle and >> > � �unicycle, camping, swimming, etc.) as recent members. �If not still >> > � �active, I hope parents with kids who can benefit from this program >> will >> > � �organize to reactivate it. �The Venture program encourages positive >> > � �experiences through exciting and meaningful youth-run activities and >> > � �adventures. �It helps teens pursue their special interests, grow by >> > � �teaching others, and develop leadership skills. >> > >> > � �Volunteering with the Boy Scouts of America is an opportunity to help >> kids >> > � �and work toward a better future families and the community. >> > � �Scouting volunteers come from a variety of backgrounds and >> experiences, >> > � �and include young adults, through housewives, construction workers >> and >> > � �folks with Ph.D.s. >> > � �Scouting experience is useful but not critical. >> > � �Often, Volunteers start as Cub parents and continue as Scout Leaders. >> > � �For many leaders the opportunities to camp at beautiful sites, learn >> new >> > � �skills and build lifelong friendships while having fun, is almost as >> > � �meaningful as the good they do for their own kids and the other >> children >> > � �of the troop. >> > >> > � �Children grow up fast. The time we invest in our kids today will make >> a >> > � �difference in the people they becomes tomorrow. >> > >> > � �Elizabeth Campion >> > � �PRUDENTIAL, FOX & ROACH REALTORS, LLC >> > � �210 W. Rittenhouse Square, Suite 406 >> > � �Phila, PA 19103 >> > >> > � �215-790-5653 Desk & Voicemail >> > � �215-880-2930 Cell & Emergency >> > � �215-546-9781 Shared office Fax >> > >> > � �[2][email protected] �or >> > � �[3][email protected] for Rental questions >> > >> > � �Link to Photos of available Listings and public, 'social' photos: >> > � �[4]www.PicasaWeb.google.com/CampionEF >> > >> > � �To check out all PFR and Multiple Listed Properties and >> > � �to review CONSUMER NOTICE, link to >> > � �[5]www.PruFoxRoach.com >> > >> > � �! >> > >> > � �____________________________________________________________ >> > � �[6]Globe Life Insurance >> > � �$1* Buys $50,000 Life Insurance. Adults or Children. No Medical Exam. >> > � �CoverageFor1Dollar.com >> > >> > References >> > >> > � �Visible links >> > � �1. http://www.beascout.org/ >> > � �2. mailto:[email protected] >> > � �3. mailto:[email protected] >> > � �4. http://www.picasaweb.google.com/CampionEF >> > � �5. http://www.prufoxroach.com/ >> > � �6. >> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3142/4c7fec7e9cca69e812bst06vuc >> _______________________________________________ >> ucneighbors mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.asc.upenn.edu/mailman/listinfo/ucneighbors >> > > > > -- > Jim Cummings > > > > _______________________________________________ > ucneighbors mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.asc.upenn.edu/mailman/listinfo/ucneighbors > > -- Jim Cummings
