John David Anderson wrote:
Roberto Mello wrote:
You can keep lying to yourself, but it won't make it any
more true.
Your efforts to enforce my personal intellectual honesty aren't really
appreciated, or welcome either, for that matter.
I have to agree with John. What's a language preference got to do with
personal integrity?
John David Anderson wrote:
Roberto Mello wrote:
If you just admit that PHP has some very, very serious flaws and hacks
in the language, and note that you have your ways to deal with them,
people will take you more seriously.
When did I deny that? Is there something I did to offend in my last
message? Your overt effort to belittle me honestly has me surprised.
Goodness. Now I'm all worried people think I'm not serious. ;)
This is a PHP user's group, right?
Yep, we exist precisely because we want to discuss flaws, resolutions,
and to answer basic usage questions. I'd say we tend to avoid hacks as
a group, preferring quality non-hack code, but I'm sure there are some
in the list that will happily contribute hacks as well.
John David Anderson wrote:
Roberto Mello wrote:
Your ways to deal with PHP's
flaws might not work for everybody. A band-aid hack is still a
band-aid hack.
I hope you don't mean to infer that all PHP developers are hacks. I
will openly admit PHP has drawbacks and gotchas, but all-in-all it's a
pleasure to work with. Is any language infallible?
I don't find myself resorting to hacks, no, if you're asking.
I'd say your right with the majority of the UPHPU group, at least from
reading over 2 years of postings. See also my above comment on hacks...
John David Anderson wrote:
Roberto Mello wrote:
I'm no ruby person, but PHP has severe limitations that prevent some
rails-like functionality to work similarly to Ruby. PHP, AFAIK, has no
way to pass functions and classes as objects. All you can do is pass a
string with the string of the function name. You can say that you have
no use for that all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that it's
you who's deliberately limiting yourself to the environment. Not the
other way around.
I'd like to respond to this particular scenario, but let's say it's
absolutely impossible to reproduce in PHP. I might have use for that,
but does it keep me from reaching some over-arching goal in
application development? Probably not. Would I use it if it was there?
Sure: why not. But it's bells and whistles like this that people wave
around as some sort of rallying cry that on the whole goes unanswered.
PHP is the workhorse of the web. Ruby has yet to prove itself.
Oh, and please don't bother reply if you aren't even going to make an
effort to be respectful. Starting off with an antagonistic and
insulting tone, challenging my intellectual honesty, putting words in
my mouth, and trying to nail me on inconsequential argument points
isn't a real great way to share and build ideas. I don't believe my
original message was disrespectful and I ask you to do the same.
-- John
Again, I agree with John. His reply had no disrespect, and made no
judgement calls on the original poster's personal integrity. I value
Robert Mello's comments about Ruby vs PHP and his personal experiences
with them, but found his comments about John David Anderson's integrity
and personal life rather harsh, and quite out of line. I ask the same,
Robert. Please keep your personal judgments about peoples integrity off
the list. Let's keep this a valuable resource for everyone.
/me cowers into a corner hoping not to get a verbal lashing from Mr.
Mello about his personal integrity...
Brandon Stout
http://mscis.org
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