Exactly. I mean no bad will to our friend Jerry Daniels, but this is the difficulty I have with his amazing Rodeo app builder - it may be too easy! I feel with all the components already made, I'm not really creating anything, but just paint by numbers and hooking it up to data. (actually I find it baffling, because it's like no other programming process I've ever used )
On 27 December 2010 08:29, Thomas McGrath III <mcgra...@mac.com> wrote: > WOW. I had a great holiday and then came back to a semantic argument over > fun as in easy or no effort versus fun as in enjoyable and a delight to do. > > "It's just so much easier to be good at something you enjoy doing, and it > is absolutely possible to find programming fun, even when it's hard." > > For me it's fun especially when it's hard. I love the challenge of coaxing > an idea into reality and hitting a wall either in concept, design or > execution and then struggling for a while and maybe having to ask for help > and eventually coming up with a solution and finally successfully completing > a project and seeing it work. This is FUN to me, it is exhilarating, it > makes getting up in the morning worth doing. I love the challenge and the > reward, the struggle and the feeling of accomplishment. > > My work, effective or not by the standards of someone else, has helped > thousands of people who otherwise could not speak to be able to not only > speak but to communicate in a meaningful way with their loved ones this > holiday season and beyond. There are systems out there that allow people to > speak i.e. "I like Brownies" when they push a button and each time they push > that button they will say "I like Brownies" but if they decide they don't > and wan't to say "I don't like Brownies" they can't unless they > painstakingly spell it out or a parent/caretaker enters it for them but this > is not the same as giving them a way to truly communicate what they actually > want to say, which is what I do. So I do consider my coding and the result > very effective. And I have a lot of fun doing it. > > -- Tom McGrath III > http://lazyriver.on-rev.com > 3mcgr...@comcast.net > > On Dec 27, 2010, at 6:10 AM, Richmond wrote: > > > On 12/27/2010 10:06 AM, Geoff Canyon Rev wrote: > >> On Fri, Dec 24, 2010 at 12:41 AM, Richmond<richmondmathew...@gmail.com > >wrote: > >>> Well; good, effective programming is rarely either EASY or FUN; and > more > >>> often > >>> than not involves a lot of prolonged effort, thought, and hard work. > >>> > >> Programming is like playing tennis. I'm sure there are professional > tennis > >> players who don't enjoy playing the game. They've either grown tired of > it, > >> or they simply discovered they had the knack, or fell into it somehow > and > >> now they're stuck. But in general, good players like the game, or even > love > >> it. > > > > I love working with Livecode, and have done ever since day #1. But the > word 'fun' > > has be come burdened with the semantics of effortless enjoyment. > Programming > > can and should be pleasurable with Livecode, but effortless it is not. > > > > To my mind, at least, half the pleasure of working with Livecode is > putting > > a bit of effort into something and seeing the wonderful results of the > > combined efforts of the 'heavy chaps' in Edinburgh (without whom we > > would be lost) and our own work. If I could achieve the sort of results I > do > > without any effort at all they would be virtually valueless as anybody > > could belt off whatever, whenever, and both Thee and Me would be out > > of a job! > > > >> It's just so much easier to be good at something you enjoy doing, and > it > >> is absolutely possible to find programming fun, even when it's hard. > >> > >> To tell would-be end-users that they can create wonderful things without > a > >>> fairly serious > >>> investment of time and effort is simply disingenuous. > >>> > >>> I disagree. Granted I have more than a few years invested, but most of > the > >>> things I've created over the years have been quick and simple. LC's > >>> advantage over other languages/environments starts near infinity, and > drops > >>> to zero or even negative as the size of the project grows. > > > > I agree with you about what you say about Livecode; when I compare it > with > > other languages/environments it really does beat them into a cocked hat. > > > > However, to maximise Livecode's full potential (and, WOW! what a > potential) > > does take quite a bit of effort. > > > > While it may take more effort to achieve the same sort of things in other > > languages/environments it does not mean that doing something in Livecode > > is exactly "Easy-Peasy-Lemon-Squeezy" either. > > > >>> At the one > >>> extreme is the fact that I can create a workable program and compile it > for > >>> several platforms in five minutes or less. > > I think the word 'workable' is the one we need to focus on here. Most of > us, > > even those of us fresh to Livecode, can produce something 'workable' very > > quickly indeed. > > > > However, 'workable' is not quite the same as 'resource efficient' and so > on. > >>> In the middle, I have many times > >>> prototyped something in less than an hour or two that dropped jaws. > > > > Of course. > > > >>> At the > >>> other extreme there are the times I would kill or die for real > handler-level > >>> integrated source control. Or macros -- what I'd give for macros. > >>> > > The ability to produce something 'workable' very quickly, and its use for > > rapid prototyping are strengths that the folks at RunRev should be > shouting from the rooftops. > > > > I believe that words such as 'easy' and 'fun', however, make Livecode > sound a bit too > > simplistic and could detract from Livecode's rich complexity which allows > its > > leverage for extremely complex stuff. > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Stephen Barncard San Francisco Ca. USA more about sqb <http://www.google.com/profiles/sbarncar> _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
