The reason I asked about version and OS is because I watched the video and 
attempted to replicate the behavior that was shown.  I could not do so.  I’ve 
now also tried on my Mac (9.6.0) and am unable to have it do what your video 

I was always able to drag the control out of the enclosing group to be the 
first item in the enclosing parent group.  This is the same action I saw was 
not working in the video.

If you drag a control below an expanded group, it goes in the group.  If you 
drag a control below a collapsed group, it snaps back on Mac most of the time 
(looks to depend on the state of relayergroupedcontrols).

The issue that you are confronting (in your discussion, not the video) is that 
the layer is an ordinal and does not convey any information about group 
membership alone.  The way things are handled make sense when you consider that 
implementation detail.  If an object is at layer 8 but outside the group above 
(5-7) and you set the layer to 8 with relayergroupedcontrols true then it will 
move to be inside the above group.  If you want to move the object at layer 9 
up to 8 and stay outside of the above group, you have to actually move the 
layer 8 control down instead.

Sent from my iPhone

>>> On Aug 12, 2020, at 8:03 PM, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode 
>>> <> wrote:
>> On Wed, 12 Aug 2020 at 22:16, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <
>>> wrote:
>> That's just how it works.
> 1. Except it doesn't work - even with refresh :
> 2. How it works is wrong! Because it is DUMB and NOT how ALL other
> software deals with layers. Bar none. Including LC's close competitors. It
> should work EXACTLY like a file system or any other folder system. I've
> coded this stuff for my own projects so why the heck is it so hard for
> those writing the engine? I don't do C and that's where the layering system
> is going wrong.
> 3. Assuming it did 'work', if the last item is a group with ctrls and I
> drag below or used the next layer number below it will ALWAYS put it INTO
> the group.
> It's wrong and it's just wasting my time, again, that I don't have with a
> tv broadcast deadline of Friday.
> You've obviously got so used to HAVING to work around these things you
> forget how they SHOULD work. Not just in my opinion but by general
> expectation from the norm outside of LC.
> What are LC doing with our subscription and donation money? Looking at the
> pull requests on github, not much! I fear the very worst!
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