I have been using LC to generate complete websites but I use LC only as a generator of HTML pages from data files and database content, using CSS for theming and HTML hierarchical template files that call LC functions through merge. I believe that Richard Gaskin is still selling a commercial product that does this in a more generic way.

I have been thinking for a while to convert my setup into a more proper CMS but gave up at the planning stage once I realized how much effort that is. I also started playing with revIgniter and am really impressed with what it offers, but I came to a similar conclusion like you.

I actually had a real CMS developed in MetaCard years ago. It was developed as a special-purpose product for a client and not a generic CMS. It broke because at the time I did not use proper modularizing and abstraction layers and keeping it compatible with the database engine became impossible at some point.

BTW, wasn’t there a commercial CMS produced in LC (or whatever it was called at the time)? I think its name was Hemingway or sth like that.


On 1 Dec 2017, at 2:56, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote:

Hi folks,

I'm looking for (initial) interest, previous experience, comments, etc.

Every few [ = 4 to 8] months for the last few [= 2 to 3] years, I've been either building a new website for someone, or making significant changes/enhancements to an existing one. Almost every time, unless the changes are very small, I've decided that I really *should* convert it to use a 'proper' CMS - e.g. Wordpress.

And I've tried - but every time I've foundered on not being able to get the site to be what I want, or realizing (believing?) that to do what I want requires real development skills within WP - and therefore too much of a learning curve and/or too much PHP.  Or, I've decided that to make it a bearable experience I need to use multiple add-ons (plugins, themes, etc.) and then found that the plugins I spent hours investigating and choosing were incompatible. Or were just not well enough documented.

[ I won't tell you how often I've found a (video) tutorial, wasted an entire hour or more watching it - then realized that it was for an out-of-date version of the plugin, or an old version of Wordpress, and that all the helpful screenshots showed me how to modify settings / actions that didn't exist, or had no obvious equivalent, in the current versions. ]

Twice, having run into brick walls with Wordpress, I've tried other CMSs (Concrete5 and ??Dolphin??) with similar results - poor / out-of-date docs have left me stranded - 80% of the way towards doing what I wanted and unable to get any further.

So in every case until now, I've given up, made tweaks / extensions to my own "home-grown" web site tool(s), and - so far - completed my enhancements in less time than I had wasted trying the "real" CMS.

I put that down to:
 - the power of Livecode
 - the power of revIgniter  (thank you ! again, Ralf)
 - my impatience in trying to learn new tools

But now I have a new, bigger opportunity / challenge - I've been asked to build a web site (actually two unrelated web sites) which are bigger and more complex, and for which I absolutely do not want to become the de facto on-going (content) maintainer.

So, I've decided to build LCMS - a Livecode Content Management System.

It will be (very loosely) based on what I think are the useful ideas in Wordpress (but without any tendency towards blogs). It will be relatively simple.

It won't be:
 - smooth, slick and all-powerful like WP
 - able to support (initially, and for some time) real independent development of themes, plugins, auto-loading and updating, etc. etc. (yada, yada, yada ...) - that might be done in a few [= 2 to 20 years]

It will be :
 - based on Livecode (and extensible in LC)
 - (I hope) simple and easy (for a LC developer) to understand, use and extend
 - complete with at least one complete theme (based on Botstrap)
 - (at some point) open source, on github, etc. under MIT liceense
 - documented in some old-fashioned way (i.e. written, searchable, skimmable tutorials - few or no Youtube videos to waste your time)

OK - enough of the advertising pitch :-)

Here are the requests for input ....

1.  has anyone tried this before ? and did you succeed ?  or why did you stop ? any foreseeable problems to contend with ?

2. am I just tilting at windmills and I should just go back to studying WP and its plugins ?

3. the current prototype is based on (or rather 'is written over' revIgniter).

I have very conflicting opinions of revIgniter
    + it's wonderful, it has a huge quantity of things it "just does" (in a well documented, well tested, etc. way)  so that I don't need to think or learn about them, etc. - I love it.     - (a) it is intimately tied to LC server, with heavy dependency on 'include' so it's impossible to (as I would want to do) test 99% of my code in the IDE, with debugging etc. help.     - (b) I *really* dislike the "rigLoadView" scheme - it forces (or seems to force) far too much co-mingling of code and content within the view files, and has no clear way to use "themes"

The current version of LCMS simply ignores the 'View' (and 'Model') part of revIgniter, and generates all its output based on  ''pages' and 'themes'  (and 'menus') - but it sill benefits from all the other parts of revIgniter).

do you think it would be worth the (considerable) effort needed to remove the dependency on rvIgniter in the hope of benefiting from the reduced complexity, hopefully lower overhead, easier debugging a higher percentage within the Ide, etc. ?

Thanks for any suggestions, input, etc.


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