Thanks Eric,

Here's what I ended up with:

function altEffectiveVisible pLongControlName
  if not the vis of pLongControlName then return false
  replace "group" with cr & "group" in pLongControlName
  filter pLongControlName with "group*"
  repeat for each line L in pLongControlName
    put offset(" of",L) into tEnd
    put char 1 to tEnd-1 of L into tGrpName
    if the vis of tGrpName is false then return false
  end repeat
  return true
end altEffectiveVisible

Didn't know about the long owner...time to check it out!
Thanks :-)
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