Richmond,Your rant is somewhat unfair and ignores the bulk of instructional design research that has taken place over the years.
Yes -- FORCE them to do it, and make it as unintuitive and boring as possible -- and some WILL still learn regardless. The main idea behind EduTainment done well is that you can give it to students and have them VOLUNTARILY spend FREE TIME learning.
With the other method? goodluckwiththat. Judy On Mon, 22 Jun 2009, Richmond Mathewson wrote:
To be honest the word 'EduTainment' makes me feel extremely queasy. ---------------------------------------------------- Conservative rant follows. ----------------------------------------------------There has arisen, in the English-speaking world at least, a theory that childrenalways have to have 'sugar' wrapped round 'the pill' as if, in some way,educational material is not sufficient in and of itself, and that children willonly learn if the information is presented as entertainment. Of course on a strict diet of edutainment children will be so mentally crippled that when they actually have to sit down and do some good, honest, hard work they will be quite incapable. One of the reasons I moved from Scotland (my country) to Bulgaria (my wife's country) with all its manifest short-comings (when compared to 'the West') was that the idea of edutainment had not permeated the system to anything near the extent it has in Britain. As a result my sons are laying down a serious foundation to life-long learning instead of playing all sorts of educational games fit for Elementary kids in the last years of High school. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------I successfully marketed a CD (authored in Runtime Revolution) for 12 year-oldsto prepared themselves for High School entry exams in Bulgarian literature; no pictures (well, we printed the heads of half-a-dozen Bulgarian authors onthe label side of the CD), only texts referring to literary analysis and themes,and a few multiple choice quizzes on literary content. The cover made no bones about the CD's content. It was the 12 year olds who bought the disk, not a rabble of overly ambitious parents. This was what the children required (after all, they could rent videos of cinema treatments of most of the books should they really want a "visual feast"), and they knew that. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am well aware, Sivakatirswami , that your agenda largely consists of religious instruction. This has, of course, become unfashionable of late. However, when I was at school (in England) nobody made any bones about it; you just got on and read your scripture; and by that I mean that the children's version of Bible stories, Mahabharata, or what ever, was cleared away with other childish things fairly quickly; and replaced with thereal thing - strong meat! I see a very real risk that if children are constantlyfed "the Children's Bible" they will be quite unable to cope with the realthing when, far too late, it is presented to them. This is rather like a friendof mine, who, when I was reading 'Robur the Conqueror' (Verne) at 11,said he would never be able to read it because it had no colour pictures in it.The poor boy had been so 'poisoned' on a diet of picture books that he was quite unable to summon up any imagery in his own mind. Therefore while I can see the place and the use of 'edutainment' as a way of easing children into learning, I would be wary of getting too obsessed with it; lest (c.f. my earlier reference to 'Maya') it swamp the educational aspect. It is perfectly possible to present educational materials in an interesting and absorbing fashion without cheapening it all with "tainment". ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Through the summer months my work-load is somewhat lighter, and I shall essay to upload to my website some screenshots of my EFL programs with notes on the target ages they are aimed at; so that everybody can see that the "tainment" can be minimised at a comparatively early age just as long as the child's attention is held. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sivakatirswami wrote:Lynn and Richmond: Thank you so much for all the insights into the "industry standards"All very useful. I have added this to my respository of production standards resources. You have offered some really useful points.A few simple replies before I go off the deep end of musing.1) I totally agree that content is king, not software wizardry. Thanks for the reminder.2) It's not that I'm "focusing too much on the techology here." as Lynn saw it... rather I'm interested in the *delivery channel/ mechanisms* 3) My original request was: can I buy some/see some titles? Richard? Let me see your stuff! (smile)One could conclude from you comments (simplistically)"Make and deliver standalones; forget about the internet except as a shopping mechanism"i.e. If you can get the client(s) to download (purchase, get on CD... whatever) a standalone that has excellent (even if technically simple) content, clearly branded which runs easily on any machine, without an internet connection, then probably you will be reaching a larger audience in the long run because the connectivity issues are bigger than anyone wants to admit.<deep end dive> But this simply leads to more questionsAu contraire... , I already have a number of titles, for free, on the internet. If you look at access logs, I see a lot of traffic to these pages, but not a lot of downloads.http://himalayanacademy.com/resources/children/dws_youth/ http://himalayanacademy.com/resources/children/yamas_niyamas/(I think if you try these you will have to agree I'm not into super technology... the one complaint being they lack sound...)Meanwhile: PDF's here: http://himalayanacademy.com/resources/children/SaivaHR_course/on the other hand are downloaded at the rate of 2000-3000 a month consistently year after year.Our Vedic Calendars "http://himalayanacademy.com/resources/panchangam/"; get (and this is no exaggeration) 200,000 plus downloads a year. (my goodness we should start charging something, if only $1.50 each)What does this tell us? I don't know for sure. Perhaps our "packaging" is just lousy, or the resistance to downloading executables is higher than one might expect, which then militates against your thesis that people will only use a product that can runs off the internet, but they don't want to "get" it off the internet, but I don't want to go into physical CD production (sales packaging, shipping order handling etc...), catch 22.Our Hinduism Today Digital Edition (Rev desktop thin client, PDF manager) on the other hand has been downloaded 15,000 copies. Why? higher profile, strong need?Sidebar: I deal with an asian/indian/malaysian/mauritian/singaporean audience, which is frankly (sorry to say it but it's true) easily 10-5 years ahead of the US "admin" establishment in terms of moving forward in the digital revolution, at least at home...if not always in schools, but even in some schools, where you may have a high resistance to internet connections in a US context, there will be little to none in a similar Asian context where the admin is so technically advanced they have no problem dealing with filtering content etc. So whether the paradigm of a paranoid "protect our kids from porn" edu, universe should inform our decision moving forward is yet another question mark. Well obviously we want to protect our kids, but there are lots of ways to protect without shutting down the pipeline completely.But, if Flash is any model to measure by, even a modicum of success in getting people to download a plug-in to run stacks in a browser is likely to blow away the "numbers" of those who may never download an executable, which, by our experience so far, is still quite low/high resistance. Since band width is still an issue, obviously a "small modules" model will be needed.So, there I came full circle: I would like to see some e.g titles of good edutainment ware.Dear Sivakatirswami, In all the institututions I have worked in where I have prepared education content delivery and reinforcement programs over the last 15 years the following have held true: Most programs have been held on a local server (SIUC, UAE University) or on individual computers (St Andrews, My school). In the case of the UAE that was because that is a conservative society with a conservative educational ethos who did not want their students to have internet access. At SIUC and St Andrews the applications were for use by students on specific programs in specific computer labs. In my own school I have no internet access at all as it is not required. At St Andrews we ran some tests and found that programs on individual machines tended to run faster, and load more quickly, than when stored ona server. As Hard Drives are not the most expensive items on an educationalinstitution's budget storage space never came up as a problem. Lynn Fredricks wrote:Yes, Yes, Yes: your first goal is to engage the student, and, presumably, notHi Sivakatirswami,With the advent of Rev Stacks running inside a browser, there is interest here in our shop with the idea of doing educational stackware.The perception that such titles by CD would probably never do well compared toa) distributing printed materials b) PDF's of the same c) Some Browser app led to us never putting any energy into educational stackware. The "run a stack in a browser" changes the equation, big time.You might be focusing too much on the techology here. Almost every major educational software company and major academic presshouse in the USA has licensed Valentina. Most of them are using Director, afew Ive pursuaded to get into Revolution.One thing is clear to me though is that they choose solutions that have leantech requirements and focus almost entirely on the content itself. Here's sort of a short list of what I see in common between them: 1. Focus on the content. Almost all work they do is towards making the content compeling to their audience - really rich audio, interesting graphics and video and the like. "Interesting" meaning, it may either be very special and on topic, or it could be fun or exciting on the branding side.have them so "turned on" by the jazzy technology that they lose sight of the content you want them to focus on.2. Minimize recommended configurations. They make sure the titles can work without a web browser, best even without any internet connection at all. A lot of school labs which account for very profitable volume sales will havehighly controlled internet access. If it cannot run without an internet connection, its often a "no buy".----------------------------------------------------------------------------- My own applications are "bog basic" in terms of technology: I could,if I wished, have all sorts of jazzy extras (and I take out my frustration in not being able to use them by lobbing them at Use-List members). However, an exercise in self-discipline is required here, and one must eschew the bells and whistles lest one lose-sight of the rationale behind the whole exercise (I believe the Sanskrit term for this type of distraction is 'Maya' - and, about 5 feet from the keyboard I am using right now I have a statue of Lord Shiva with his foot firmly placed on the back of a Mara; an agent of Maya).------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------3. Easy to use local management. If its an application that benefits from "lab" level administration, make the teacher side of it easy to set up. Alot of Valentina customers get our Bonjour add-on because they can simplifiya lot of lab level configuration by using it.Just bung the programs on the classroom server.4. Protect Privacy. This is a big one - if your software tests understanding/comprehension/etc, then make it secure. 5. Branding. Just one title doesn't really cut it; come up with several titles that can have a shared brand. When you ship your first title, make sure you can transfer your branding efforts to new titles.And, something that I think is very important here; a fairly standardised, and recognisable interface style. So that when a student fires up one of your applications s/he can say "Ah, one of those programs" and feel comfortable and relaxed; and, as a consequence, open to new instruction. Once in a while I go "funny" and try out a new interface style in a program - always a mistake - the kids I teach, have, over a period of time, got used to the 'Richmond style' and respond well to it - and when faced with a new interface get seriously discombobulated. Now as my mainaim is to "shoe-horn" some English into the kids' heads, a change in interfaceis merely churlish and counterproductive.In most cases - these companies do not push the limit of what Director (or Revolution) can do - they don't want to, because it means they won't be ablePush the limit? Everything I do could be done with RR version 1. Surely 'pushing the limit' is beside the point: most children who have access to computers areto be used in so many schools.having their heads stuffed with (pardon the expression) COMPLETE CRAP thatpushes the technogical limits of whatever it is developed in everyday, at home.Now children have rather better criteria than adults normally give them credit for; and, very quickly, if the content of your applications is engaging and interestingthey will fast forget that is doesn't push the limit.I have interleaved my remarks here as a way of showing how, oddly enough, theylargely coincide with those of Lynn Fredricks. Richmond.Best regards, Lynn Fredricks President Paradigma Software http://www.paradigmasoft.com Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server _______________________________________________ use-revolution mailing list [email protected]Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution_______________________________________________ use-revolution mailing list [email protected]Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution_______________________________________________ use-revolution mailing list [email protected]Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution_______________________________________________ use-revolution mailing list [email protected]Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
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