On Saturday, July 12, 2003, at 06:13 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
(Sorry folks, this is a long and rambling post...)
Bernard, you are raising lots of interesting issues but I disagree with you about some of technical possibilities.
- Very high performance servers can be constructed in a single thread on the Medusa design
- Python is a scripting language with an object persistence scheme.
- Transcript is a scripting language with data stacks and custom properties (like object persistence)
Technically, the starting points are the same. I conclude that Python has nothing up on us, and it's totally possible to do it in Revolution.
If you are arguing on business and organizational grounds that it's not a good idea, that we don't want to be kind of second-rate ZOPE competitor with less programmers and less funding and less organization then I can agree with that.
I don't see any benefit from Rev users or Runrev re-inventing the wheel.
Agreed. But custom properties are *fast* and integrate completely into revolution. So let's use them! I get tired of SQL and this is one of the things that appealed to me about Zope.
Now, on to Zope :-) ...
All well put.
I agree totally with the idea of greater integration of Rev with web standards and technologies, but I don't think that the aim should be on server-side processing. I mentioned this also on the list recently, but was met by a fairly dead silence.
I do not think people should be prevented from using Rev on the server side, for lack of documentation or supporting. I think already Rev is firmly oriented on the client-side and one should not to worry it's going to suddenly turn into a server-side only solution.
I asked what Runrev's plans for XML were, and pointed out that it seemed to be a bit unclear as to the purpose of including XML functionality in the latest version.
Huh? Maybe I don't understand the question. Obviously the purpose was to have an XML parser. I'm using it in my project. OK it's only 1 file of XML I'm parsing and could have easily done it with regular expressions instead- but since the XML parser is there I'm using it.
Geoff Canyon responded to say he has a stack that can transform a Rev app to XML and can transform XML to Rev. But it doesn't work with Rev 2, so as far as I can see, they still don't have any clear plan for XML integration.
Probably lack of time.
IIRC, the altBrowser is IE only? I would not like to rely on Microsoft for anything. They have a history of destroying competition (by fair means or foul). And it is my belief that we have seen nothing yet: they are going to tighten their monopoly position in ways that many people have not yet imagined.
Naturally... But embedding browsers into apps is something the Microsoft has offered and Apple (will) offer. I don't think either of them are going to stop offering an embed-able browser.
If Runrev is going to become more closely integrated with a browser, then I would strongly suggest that people consider the Gecko rendering engine from the Mozilla project. Yes, I know that the Mozilla browser can be a bit of a sloth compared to IE (although I don't think they are that different - I've seen IE take up to 100mb of RAM on my laptop...yep, 100mb!) I'm unclear as to how big a task it might be to employ Gecko. I suspect that MS make it relatively easy to integrate IE (people behind the Mozilla project just didn't get it, until Apple snubbed them with Safari).
I don't think one should get hung up on web browsers as a platform. They are a joke. Try developing quite simple CSS that work in IE6 on XP, then view them in IE on OS X and see them not work. Same applies to Netscape and Mozilla. Same applies to Javascript.
Yes, as a former web developer/programmer, I agree. Also look at bugzilla. Their project goals state it will be "browser agnostic". Ha! So far it only works with mozilla.
Why is replacing Java applets or Flash over-optimistic?
Because they have huge installed bases I guess. I think a lot of Flash users wouldn't touch Revolution one they saw the jaggy graphics in Rev. They are used to antialiased graphics I'm sure. Personally I dislike Java applets, so I wish Rev would kill them off.
So what is required? a) integration with web technology (especially XML) b) trust (certification) and/or a local security sandbox.
These are both achievable (and probably in many different ways), and I think the market potential is phenomenal.
Agreed!
I want to be able to use Rev as I have described above within the next 6 to 12 months.Well I hope it happens :-)
Alex Rice, Software Developer Architectural Research Consultants, Inc. http://ARCplanning.com
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