Bill Marriott wrote:
"Richard Gaskin" wrote
Those other widgets/gadgets rely on a runtime engine that's already
installed.
Not true. The K. engine is a 9MB download.
True, but when Vista hits the streets what will the value be of a 9MB
download when a user could get OS-compatible widgets/gadgets for just a
few k.
Rev is great for making applications. That's what I do for a living. I
respect that you like widgets/gadgets and that many others do. But
they're not part of my world (I disabled Dashboard on Day 2 of my Tiger
install), so you'll have to find another advocate.
It may well be that as long as this philosophy is the driving force behind
RunRev it never will be "popular." Of course, that doesn't mean Rev is not
useful.
What is "popular"? I think it varies by context.
While Konfab has been making single-window doodads and Flash has been
making browser apps and Dreamweaver has been making web sites, Rev has
been making applications.
Sure, we could ask the development team to take time away from the
things the tool is widely used for to add additional conveniences for
widget/gadget-like appearances. To the degree the investment is small I
would go along with it, but I have a long list of things I'd like to see
before they start writing scripts to handle the import of Photoshop
layers; I don't even use Photoshop (have I raved about how much I love
Fireworks today? <g>).
My central point here is simply that Rev is a fine tool for delivering a
broad range of applications, which may look like standard
OS-HIG-mandated wares or Rossi-esque Konfab-inspired creations as well.
I see no harm -- and much good -- in encouraging folks to make whatever
they want with Rev, including widget/gadget-like things.
But do I feel a foocus on widget/gadget appearances is a make-or-break
for RunRev Ltd? Nope.
Is it hard to do with Rev as it is right now? Not unless you need to
rely on the rotate command.
It doesn't take a complete revamp of the IDE and it would not alter the
"paradigm" of the program to show Rev can create contemporary-looking apps.
This stretches the definition of "contemporary". If you mean
widget/gadget-style apps, that's a specific thing. But if you mean apps
that substantially conform to the current Human Interface Guidelines
published for each OS, that's pretty much in the can right now.
K.'s tagline is, "Whatever you want it to be." Rev's tagline apparently is,
"The xTalk-based IDE for generating HIG-compliant applications in Vertical
Market Contexts."
If that's K's tagline it may sound good but it's a bit of a stretch.
What if what you want is to build WebMerge. Or any app with a standard
menu bar? Can K even write a file to disk?
As for Rev's tagline, Macworld summed it up well and not much
differently than yours:
"The best Rapid Application Development tool on the market."
I guess it doesn't really matter, then, if Rev is "popular" or not as long
as consultants can use it to create EXEs for clients.
That's not so bad, there's a lot of money in EXEs.
- Make a sample RSS displayer that could be tweaked easy with new
graphics and a different URL.
Coming in a revJournal article soon, integrated with RevNet.
But not part of a concerted marketing effort on runrev.com
Hard to say. RunRev has been very supportive of revJournal and RevNet,
as they have with many third-party efforts, so I can't imagine why
they'd turn down anything of value that comes out of that. RevNet's
been bundled with the product for three years now.
- Make something that can play an Internet radio station with some cool
logos and equalizer effects
You know how to make an equalizer in Rev?
I'm talking about pretty animations or bouncing waveforms, not an audio
editor.
Even that's hard, but of keen interest to me. If you find a way to make
waveforms in Rev I'd love to learn more. At the moment I'm looking into
externals for that.
Does Konfabulator provide an API for hooking into the audio
decompression engines? How does it do waveforms?
[I] hadn't considered releasing [my player] since there are already so
many great Internet radio players out there -- not the least of which is
iTunes, and I doubt I'll ever have 0.0001% as much reach as that, even if
I stole a hundred hours from paying work to make it gorgeous.
For some reason, these special-purpose radio players, often "locked in" to
one station (like BBC) are top downloads on the K. site. One's local radio
station might well be interested in distributing a widget that is a branded
desktop radio. Who knows... perhaps .0001% of iTunes share equals a 100%
increase in RunRev share?
I think you may be on to something, but why wait for RunRev?
You can do this yourself today.
RunRev could even help you sell it through their RevSelect program.
This would satisfy everyone: RunRev would be promoting "cool"-looking
software, you'd make some money, and it wouldn't take RunRev away from
any of the activities that so many businesses rely on them for. A true
win-win-win across the board.
- A little flower that sits on your desktop in K. has received almost
10,000 downloads! All it does it change color!
http://www.widgetgallery.com/index.php?search=flower
I can see the look on my clients' faces when I tell them why their project
is late.... ;)
I'd like to imagine the look on my clients' faces when I tell them I drove
10,000 incremental trials of their product in a month. That's no "little"
accomplishment.
This may be where we differ, possibly the source of misunderstanding
between us:
My focus is on the whole macroeconomy of Rev, from RunRev Ltd. to the
developers who build stuff with it, to the publishers who distribute
those wares, to the end-users why buy them. Today, there's a lot of
value being realized throughout all levels of that chain.
I just don't see a lot of commercial widgets/gadgets.
How many widget/gadget developers support their families from such wares?
While I agree that such things are attractive, the only pockets it would
line are RunRev's.
Meanwhile, another class of customer is looking for a tool to build not
just software, but a business. That customer will get not only trials
but -- more importantly -- conversion to sales by providing utility to
their customers.
Fortunately this isn't an either-or, which is my main point. You can do
what you want to do (aside from the rotate command) right now, and
chances are you'll spend more time doing the grapics than coding.
Transcript is measurably easier to work with than JavaScript. That's
not the barrier. Neither is the time to import images.
The only barrier is one's imagination, and the market. If you believe
in this market there's nothing stopping you from realizing that
potential today.
I think your radio player is a great starting point.
Furthermore, this whole thing started as a request to elaborate on what I
think is a valid point about the Rev experience being stuck in the 90s, and
this leading (unfairly) to it's perceived lack of popularity.
If by "90s" you mean the 2005 OS X HIG, then yes, that may be true.
I stated my opinion, I provided more than enough detail on it,
and if RunRev would like to have me bring the campaign I've
outlined to market, they have my email address.
If they do, have you built more of these than Scott Rossi?
Other than that, I think I need to brush up on my XML and
JavaScript, because that, my friend, seems to be where
the world is heading.
Agreed, much of the world. But not all of it.
There's plenty of room for many different types of software, and many
(except those relying on the rotate command) can be built in Rev today,
and in most cases with less effort than the alternatives.
I think that may be the only area where you and I have disagreed, and I
sincerely hope we can move beyond that now:
I'm 100% supportive of everything you've said, except the notion that
it's the only way RunRev can be successful.
Success comes in many forms. This is a big world, with many
opportunities for all of us. Let's all enjoy making the sorts of things
we love to make.
--
Richard Gaskin
Managing Editor, revJournal
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