H Simon,
I can really sympathize with you! I was in the same boat around three
years ago. The documentation is not very good, especially if you are
used to working in C/C++ where the "white" books are available.
The thing that really confused me and got me pulling my hair out is
the "all-in-one" concept behind RunRev, by that I mean there is no
"initial" state in which you can get back to square one! By this I
mean that if you (or a bug) sets the location of an Object way off
the screen then it will stay there until you bring it back again. In
C/C++ you start with a clean slate every time!
I've done a lot of moaning and complaining about the state of the
documentation and silly bugs that have not been fixed for ages, but
in the end RunRev really is the best thing on the market for RAD,
especially when coupled with C/C++ external commands.
One of the main problems is when starting off is that you are faced
with a *huge* system with lots of different ways of doing things and
lots of sample stacks, all doing similar things using different
techniques. It's really hard to sort out something that does the job
for you and is extensible. Plenty of times I've invested time and
effort in something that later I've found won't work 100% because
something else "fights" it. The documentation could definitely be
better in this respect.
Over the three years I've been using it, I have developed my own
Framework and Message/Event Manager that help loads and make it a
much more pleasant experience. I'd be happy to provide more
information if you like. So, I think you are doing the right thing by
sticking with it, it will take a while but one day you'll think -
Wow! That's how to do it!
All the Best
Dave
On 29 Mar 2007, at 12:27, Simon HARPER wrote:
Hi there, and I do agree that, as a coder of 15 years, I would
normally go on gut instinct. However, being used to c/c++, Java and
Perl the Revolution Transcript syntax and expressions are not
'natural' for me, as I'm trained to think in the more mathematical
syntax of these grammars and not the more discursive grammar of
Transcript. I'm sure I'll get it with persistence but I just think
that coders moving over could really do with good documentation as
it just is not intuitive for a people with experience of these
other 'conventional' languages, IMO.
However, having said that I'm actually really enjoying learning it
and am persisting because I can see long term benefits of using
Revolution as a RAD tool. Having said this I've another question
which I'll send as a separate email...
Cheers
Si.
====
Simon Harper
2.44 Kilburn Building
University of Manchester (UK)
Pri: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Alt: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On 29 Mar 2007, at 12:15, Richmond Mathewson wrote:
I beleive one of the main reasons RR does not spend a
lot of time and resources on updating documentation is
because a very large number of programmers don't read
the documentation in anything but a cursory manner -
relying on their intuition, their past experience and
their willingness ot "get their feet wet" instead.
When I was learning PASCAL (Durham, 1984) the standard
joke going around the computer labs was that the last
person to write a computer programming manual had had
a mausoleum constructed out of unsold copies.
I have yet to read a really user-friendly programming
manual as most computer-programmers who write manuals
do not seem to spend a lot of time on audience
research or the finer points of reader-response
theory.
The other reason why RR may not take their
documentation too seriously is that, in my experience,
the best manual I am aware of for Runtime Revolution
is this Use-List - it is dynamic, adaptive and
generally very friendly.
I am always happy, either on or off-list, to answer
the most basic Newbie questions:
geradamas at yahoo dot com
richmond at mail dot maclaunch dot com
There are many contributors to this list who can
answer both those basic ones, and more tricky ones, in
a way far better than I can.
sincerely, Richmond Mathewson
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