David Crossley wrote:
Ross Gardler wrote:
...
Leo Simons wrote:
...
while since it has to check out things such as a servlet engine, a whole
website, lots of skins I don't need, dozens of jars I already have on my
system (in my maven repository).
Yes, we should consider moving to Maven, ...
Waiting until Cocooon move to Maven. Forrest
probably then doesn't need to, as most of the
jars that we use are direct from Cocoon.
True, although some plugins provide jars as well. I agree we should be
waiting for Cocoon to finish the move as 95% of the benefit is in Cocoon
not the plugins.
Even if it works once I get forrest built
(why do I need to build anything?)
You don't have to build anything, just download a binary distribution,
this is more misinformation.
Actually, sorry to say Ross, this time you are
spreading the mis-information. The Incubator docs
are very clear about using the current forrest_07_branch.
http://incubator.apache.org/guides/website.html
OK, sorry, I didn't realise there were bug fixes in the branch. If they
are critical we should consider a 0.7.1 release. If they are only for
Incubator (and they stay with Forrest) we should consider providing
"stable snapshots" (see thread on dev).
I have no idea what the first two columns mean. They don't seem to
correspond
to anything, since the numbers change at random between pages. Ugh.
You know I don't know what they mean either. I never bothered to find
out because I never needed to know and I never saw a user question that
involved them.
They are explicitly explained in the build output
and there is a nice FAQ about it. I find them
extremely useful and would like them to remain.
They are explained in the FAQ, but not in the build output:
# Column 2 is the page count - the number of pages processed and the
number remaining. The latter will change because during processing one
page, Cocoon will discover more.
# Column 3 is the number of links that were gathered from that page.
(I'm guessing Leo was actually referring to the second two columns since
he refers to numbers and the first is indeed explained in the build output)
Moreoever, why on earth did
it spend 5 minutes generating files that are now exactly the same as
before?? Abort, abort, abort.
...
With respect to the need to generate changed pages,
That should read "to generate *unchanged* pages"
this is an often
requested feature. We are a little limited by Cocoon here, but it is
possible to manually edit a config file that will restrict the
generation to a limited number of pages. Problem there is the need to
manually edit the file - too complex.
This is because Cocoon crawls the site looking for
links to build. Perhaps the navigation has changed
to add other menu items to this page. Perhaps the
skin has changed. So perhaps Cocoon needs to re-build
every page. I cannot see how or why we would change this.
One has to be very careful about this. If I fix a spelling error in a
single page of a 500 page site, I really don't want to generate all 500
pages. It would be good to just generate that single page...
There are FAQs about generating single pages.
It is not hard. However this is a dangerous thing
to do. It would be easy to end up with a site
that is out-of-sync.
Yes, there are FAQs. But we know people don't read docs, our discussions
on the Incubator list prove it.
For me, the question is can we make it even simpler than it already is?
I think we can, see proposal on dev list.
- heavy HTML using spacer GIFs and complex tables
Only the old "deprecated" skins use html tables.
Use the recommended "pelt" skin or wait for the new
Dispatcher.
Yes, that is correct. The pelt skin is 100% CSS and has been for some
time. Interestingly that is what the Incubator is using, so I have no
idea when the last time Leo looked at the generated sources were.
Furthermore, I just created a new skin which is somewhat cleaner in its
output. It is intended to be a the equivalent of http://www.apache.org.
It's not perfect yet, but it is pretty close. See dev list.
The Dispatcher improves things even more (again a dev topic).
Ross
