When is your workshop? On 2010-02-18, Ing. Jan Novotný <novotn...@gmail.com> wrote: > Thank you guys for sharing your experience. It's pretty good to hear that > combining annotations and XML approach works in practice. > > My first thought was, that in case of large systems I wouldn't be able tu > guess whether I should look in the Java or XML first when searching for > particular statement definition. Next thought was about portability - we > were forced a couple of times to translate statements in the XML definitions > from one DB dialect into another. That is something one must count with when > writing pure SQL statements. But when they are scattered over these two > kinds of files, I will have to move all statements from interfaces to the > XML and then make a dialect translation. Maybe there could be a way of > extending former interface with annotations override , but this doesn't seem > much nice to me. What's your view on this? > > Btw. the presentation will be more of a workshop and I thought that > everybody starts just with Maven pom and downloads few libraries from the > public repositories. There the latest one is 3-beta-9. Of course with some > effort I could compile new artifact form trunk a distribute it to their > local repositories, you're right. > > Jan > > 2010/2/19 Nathan Maves <nathan.ma...@gmail.com> > >> I completely agree. >> >> I too have a project using IB3 and I am really loving mixing the two >> together. I would give it a try before trying to corner yourself into >> using >> just one approach. >> >> >> Nathan Maves >> nathan.ma...@gmail.com >> >> >> >> On Feb 18, 2010, at 4:09 PM, Clinton Begin wrote: >> >> Just curious, why are you limited to 3.0 Beta 9? >> >> As for annotations vs. XML, I was worried about splitting between the two >> at first, and thought that it might be good to choose one approach and >> stick >> with it. But that would mean you'd have to choose XML, as annotations >> can't >> compete. That said, I've been working on a project mixing annotations and >> XML, and I'm very happy with the results. I've found that INSERT, UPDATE >> and DELETE statements pretty much always remain as annotations, along with >> simple SELECT statements. The only things I end up putting in XML are >> very >> complex queries that include collections or associations. Overall, it >> seems >> quite clean and easy to follow. I've never been in a situation where I >> was >> confused about it. >> >> Cheers, >> Clinton >> >> 2010/2/18 Ing. Jan Novotný <novotn...@gmail.com> >> >>> Hello Clinton, >>> >>> many thanks for your answers. They made a lot of things much clearer >>> to >>> me - "the whitepaper" set a lot of expectations in the minds of many >>> people >>> (including me), so that's why I asked those questions. I am sure someone >>> will ask me those questions at the presentation, so I want to be >>> prepared. >>> I found some more configuration options in the trunk, but for the >>> presentation I am limited to 3-beta-9 where they didnť work. But it's >>> good >>> to know, that those issues got answered. >>> My final question - would you encourage using annotations after all? >>> From the limited experience with iBatis 3 I have, they could be used only >>> to >>> simple cases, but they make the code fragmented among annotations and >>> XML. I >>> can imagine that this could be very confusing in the large scale, so >>> maybe I >>> should recommend to attendees of the presentation to better stick with >>> good >>> old XML. What do you think? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Jan >>> >>> Offtopic: >>> P.S.: you seem very resignated to the Java - does the folks from >>> Microsoft >>> got you? :) >>> >>> 2010/2/18 Clinton Begin <clinton.be...@gmail.com> >>> >>>> Hi Jan, >>>> >>>> >>>> >> expectations come from iBatis 3 Whitepaper >>>> >>>> Just to be clear, it wasn't a "white paper" it was a community >>>> whiteboard >>>> for brainstorming ideas. So it contained goals and ideas, but there was >>>> never a commitment to any of them. >>>> >>>> >>>> >> Multilevel Configuration >>>> >>>> Ultimately I decided not to implement it this way because it became hard >>>> to trace where behavior was configured. To fully understand how a >>>> statement >>>> might behave or perform, you would have had to look in 3 places. I >>>> wasn't >>>> satisfied with that, so I made it to be either XML or Annotations per >>>> statement. You can happily mix mappers with annotations or xml >>>> statements, >>>> but each statement must use either one or the other. >>>> >>>> >>>> >> to state all properties in order to alter the single one >>>> >>>> That's configurable. See the docs under the automappingBehavior setting >>>> (I think that's what it's called). >>>> >>>> >>annotations >>>> >>>> You think it's unpleasant? You should have seen me the day that I had >>>> to >>>> remove WORKING CODE from my system because Sun changed the behavior of >>>> Java >>>> Annotations between Java 1.5 and 1.6. >>>> >>>> In a nutshell, circular references are not supported in the Annotations >>>> framework. All of your best hopes and dreams of having something better >>>> are >>>> dashed by this one limitation. There was a workaround in Java 1.5, but >>>> Sun >>>> considered it a compiler bug, so they "fixed" the workaround in JDK 1.6. >>>> If >>>> you want to see it, you can dig back through a few hundred commits and >>>> see >>>> where I removed that behavior. >>>> >>>> A shame. If this was C# I would have been able to fully realize the >>>> vision of where we wanted to take the annotation (or attributes in C#) >>>> approach. >>>> >>>> **>> 3 combinations of annotations and xml >>>> >>>> In general, I recommend using annotations for simple things, and use XML >>>> for anything more complicated. Sorry, but Java annotations are just too >>>> messy, limited and ugly. There's a million reasons why we had to scale >>>> back >>>> the behavior and limit it to what you see now. If you want to >>>> understand >>>> why, I encourage you to try to implement some of your suggestions. >>>> You'll >>>> find the same challenges. >>>> >>>> >> 4 automatic (generated) SQL >>>> >>>> Yes, I completely ditched the idea of generating SQL. It's just a road >>>> that I wasn't prepared to take iBATIS down. >>>> >>>> >> 5 dynamic sql in annotations >>>> >>>> Yes, SelectProvider and the SQL Builder framework are the only way >>>> (other >>>> than writing your own). I wasn't about to start putting XML embedded in >>>> SQL >>>> embedded in strings embedded in annotations... that's out of hand and >>>> bad >>>> practice IMHO. >>>> >>>> I appreciate your questions, but please realize that everything was >>>> considered. Some things were left out for very good design reasons, >>>> others >>>> because of limitations in Java and others we might just not have had a >>>> chance to implement yet. >>>> >>>> Clinton >>>> >>>> 2010/2/18 Ing. Jan Novotný <novotn...@gmail.com> >>>> >>>>> Hello, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I am going to have a presentation about iBatis 3 at Czech JUG. I >>>>> have >>>>> a 3-year experience with iBatis-2 and now I am doing little research on >>>>> what's new in upcoming iBatis 3 release. Most of my expectations come >>>>> from >>>>> iBatis 3 Whitepaper at the iBatis Confluence site. Now I am testing the >>>>> new >>>>> version and there are some things I didn't expect. I will be very >>>>> pleased if >>>>> anyone capable could answer me following questions so that I may >>>>> forward >>>>> them to the attendees of CZ JUG: >>>>> >>>>> * 1) multilevel configuration* >>>>> Firstly I thought that there would be a chance to override less >>>>> prioritized level of configuration. Meaning, that if I have SQL >>>>> represented >>>>> in an @Select annotation and I create XML statement in mapper file with >>>>> the >>>>> same name, this XML declaration will take over the annotation and will >>>>> be >>>>> used instead. Reality is that iBatis will fail to start complaining >>>>> about >>>>> duplicate declaration. As I discovered, I can use only one or the other >>>>> way >>>>> - I can combine XML file with annotation based Java DAO, but they must >>>>> not >>>>> overlap in the sense of statement declaration. Is that right? Why is >>>>> that >>>>> done this way? >>>>> Next I thought there could be some means to explicitly say, that >>>>> some parts of the lower configuration level fit for me and therefore >>>>> ease my >>>>> life a little. Let say I have ResultMap statement in XML configuration >>>>> and >>>>> 95% of its properties is fine by convention, but I need only to specify >>>>> more >>>>> single property or declare association / collection mapping. In that >>>>> case I >>>>> have to state all properties in order to alter the single one that is >>>>> needed >>>>> to be extra taken care of (or at least these are my findings from the >>>>> tests >>>>> I wrote). What I really want to say is: use convention to all >>>>> properties >>>>> except those that I explicitly configure in XML - that is not possible, >>>>> is >>>>> it? >>>>> >>>>> * 2) annotations* >>>>> Another unpleasant surprise was, that I am not able to get along >>>>> with annotations to specify <collection> mapping - annotation >>>>> @Collection is >>>>> missing. Also @Association is not present - but as I discovered, it's >>>>> possible to write @Result annotations in the way that associated object >>>>> gets >>>>> mapped. In documentation I found a statement, that annotations in Java >>>>> aren't powerfull enough to make some things possible, but I can't make >>>>> up >>>>> why @Collection annotation is not possible to be made. >>>>> >>>>> * 3) combination of XML and annotations* >>>>> I tried combination of XML and annotations (due to lack of >>>>> @Collection annotation) to specify @Select annotation but specify >>>>> output as >>>>> a ResultMap mapping in the XML configuration. But that's not possible >>>>> too. >>>>> Mixing configuration from annotations and XML is not possible in any >>>>> way I >>>>> guess. Ok, but is there any way how to reuse my annotations, to get the >>>>> same >>>>> behaviour as reusing ResultMap mapping in different statements of XML >>>>> configuration?! >>>>> >>>>> * 4) automatic SQL implementation* >>>>> I didn't find any piece of this functionality. May I take it, >>>>> that >>>>> this was completely discarded? >>>>> >>>>> * 5) annotations and dynamic SQL* >>>>> Finally I didn't find any clue how to use dynamic SQL in >>>>> annotations. Does that mean that @SelectProviders are the only way how >>>>> to >>>>> make dynamic queries by the Java code? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for your time and answers I can use in my presentation if >>>>> anyone asks. Please, don't be offended by my questions, generally I >>>>> think >>>>> iBatis is a great DAO framework. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers Jan >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> Ing. Jan Novotný >>>>> @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ >>>>> http://blog.novoj.net >>>>> Myšlenky dne otce Fura >>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> -------------------------------------------------------------- >>> Ing. Jan Novotný >>> @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ >>> http://blog.novoj.net >>> Myšlenky dne otce Fura >>> -------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >> >> >> > > > -- > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Ing. Jan Novotný > @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ > http://blog.novoj.net > Myšlenky dne otce Fura > -------------------------------------------------------------- >
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