Am 14.10.2011 um 18:47 schrieb Marko Rodriguez: > > This is not conducive to Baysian-based reasoning, evidential reasoning, > other forms of logics (classical and non-classical) ....
How would you model those to a suitable domain model? Can you give a good example? Michael > > On Oct 14, 2011, at 10:32 AM, Thad Guidry wrote: > >> I should further say after looking more at Spring Data Neo4j ... that it >> allows an easy Type system layer on top of Neo4j. Is that correct ? The >> same kind of Type system that Freebase.com has had always. >> >> In fact, Micheal, I would say even say that with Spring Data Neo4j >> installed, you could almost point users to the Freebase Data modeling style >> guide as a good reference : >> http://wiki.freebase.com/wiki/Data_modeling_style_guide >> >> On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 11:26 AM, Thad Guidry <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> From your quick example, it looks like Spring Data Neo4j is what most folks >>> really expect out of the box with Neo4j. I know I certainly did when I >>> installed Neo4j for the first time, last year. Spring Data seems to meet >>> with my expectation (based on my bottom-up Schema-evolving work on >>> Freebase.com) >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 11:15 AM, Michael Hunger < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> With spring data neo4j you are able to use any domain entity with any >>>> node, so it is for instance >>>> possible to project an entity to another when used in a different context. >>>> >>>> Otherwise the Spring Data Neo4j config less invasive and more concise than >>>> the existing model >>>> but uses the same approach behind the scenes (fields are mapped to >>>> properties and relationships - 1:1 or 1:n are mapped to relationships). >>>> >>>> @NodeEntity >>>> class Movie { >>>> String title; >>>> Set<Actor> actors; >>>> } >>>> >>>> a more elaborate example. >>>> @NodeEntity >>>> class Movie { >>>> @GraphId Long id; >>>> @Indexed(fulltext=true, indexName="movies") String title; >>>> @RelatedToVia(type="ACTS_IN", direction=Direction.INCOMING) >>>> Iterable<Role> roles; >>>> Person director; >>>> } >>>> >>>> @RelationshipEntity >>>> class Role { >>>> @Indexed String title; >>>> @StartNode Actor actor; >>>> @EndNode Movie movie; >>>> } >>>> >>>> @NodeEntity >>>> class Actor { >>>> String name; >>>> Gender gender; >>>> Date birthday; >>>> public Role actsIn(Movie movie, String role) { >>>> return relateTo(movie,"ACTS_IN",Role.class).withTitle(role); >>>> } >>>> @RelatedTo(type="ACTS_IN") >>>> Set<Movie> movies; >>>> } >>>> >>>> >>>> Am 14.10.2011 um 16:14 schrieb Thad Guidry: >>>> >>>>> I would suggest breaking down his statement further and fill in the >>>> blanks >>>>> to gain even better insight into his conjecture. >>>>> >>>>> "it‘s basically a bunch of nodes where you just blob your attributes.‘ >>>>> Worse than that, to wrap objects around it, you have to have them >>>> explicitly >>>>> incorporate their node class, which is ugly, smelly, violates every law >>>> of >>>>> separation of concerns and logical vs. physical models." >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> "it's" - Neo4j >>>>> >>>>> "to wrap objects around IT" - what is the IT that he is referring to ? >>>>> >>>>> "you have to have THEM explicitly incorporate THEIR node class" - what >>>> is >>>>> THEM / THEIR really mean for Neo4j here ? >>>>> >>>>> "law of separation of concerns" - what and where are we JOINING that >>>> should >>>>> be SEPARATING , is it only the Domain objects ? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> From outside looking in, I have seen others not complete their Domain >>>> Model >>>>> as needed with Neo4j, and also make it entirely TOO SIMPLE. Why ? >>>> Because >>>>> they might be new to graph databases, or their Domain Model really IS >>>> NOT >>>>> complete yet and they need help from others to assist with putting >>>> together >>>>> an elegant Domain Model to begin with. Being able to easily wire up a >>>>> Domain Model is the primary reason they were attracted to graph >>>> databases in >>>>> the first place !... to build it out without resorting to defining a >>>> rigid >>>>> schema (a SQL table mantra). But many need help in contorting their >>>> Domain >>>>> Model over time. To me, Neo4j is already wide open enough to handle >>>> that >>>>> contortion and the beauty of Neo4j & graph databases in general. >>>>> >>>>> Folks just need better much more detailed Domain Model examples than >>>> what is >>>>> available, that would help incredibly so, since many folks have a >>>> complex >>>>> Domain Model to begin with (they just do not realize it yet) and they >>>> are >>>>> hoping Neo4j will help them quickly wire it up, stretch it out when >>>> needed, >>>>> and analyze the hell out of it when the time comes, and stretch it out >>>> even >>>>> more as they continue to fill it up and expand their Domain Model. A >>>> bottom >>>>> up approach (and I mean really BOTTOM) is the best practice, but it does >>>>> take thought and research in finding where that generic bottom is at. A >>>>> "Friend" - what is a Friend, what attributes does a Friend have ? Which >>>> ones >>>>> do I care about now and can worry about later ? A "Stock Issuing >>>> Company", >>>>> do I need to think of my relationships first for those, or should I >>>> start >>>>> with attributes ? Will those attributes be shared with others ? Do I >>>> care >>>>> about it now at this early beginning of my Domain Model, or can I wait >>>> on >>>>> this ? Should I start with attributes (properties) always, and leave >>>>> relationships alone until the very end, when I build a Domain Model ? >>>> (the >>>>> answer to that last question is YES, because Neo4j actually DOES allow >>>> you >>>>> to) >>>>> >>>>>> He attacks our pattern of building domain models with Neo4j, calling it >>>>>>> "ugly", "smelly" and "in violation of every law of separation of >>>> concerns >>>>>>> and logical vs. physical models". Is he right? My feeling is that he >>>> is >>>>>>> brain washed with too many so called "best practices", but Neo4j has >>>> been >>>>>> my >>>>>>> main model for a long time now, my perspective is likely skewed. I'd >>>> like >>>>>> to >>>>>>> hear your thoughts. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Your main model IS NOT Neo4j. That is your main database that "holds" >>>> your >>>>> Domain Model. And if Neo4j is not really doing this from top to bottom, >>>>> then I would agree with Richard that the Neo4j infrastructure is not in >>>> the >>>>> best place right now and might need more work. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> -Thad >>>>> http://www.freebase.com/view/en/thad_guidry >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Neo4j mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Neo4j mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> -Thad >>> http://www.freebase.com/view/en/thad_guidry >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> -Thad >> http://www.freebase.com/view/en/thad_guidry >> _______________________________________________ >> Neo4j mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user > > _______________________________________________ > Neo4j mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user _______________________________________________ Neo4j mailing list [email protected] https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user
