OK David. Maybe just one last thing. No more soap-boxing. A simple question for a change :)
David E. Jones wrote:
Looking around the OFBiz documents and such I don't think this distinction is adequately represented, so I added some text similar to the above to the home page of ofbiz.apache.org. It should be public within a few hours, ie whenever the next deployment job runs.
Reading your new text, this stood out:"OFBiz can certainly be used OOTB (out of the box), but if you're looking for something that works really well for that there are many open source projects that do a great job there."
OK. So maybe those projects might be more what I'm looking for.I searched a couple of months ago and didn't find anything I thought could do a better job than OFBiz. What other open source projects are you thinking of here?
Ian
-David On Jan 20, 2007, at 3:49 AM, Ian McNulty wrote:Chris, David, Everybody.One last thought on the subject before I have my porridge and another lie down ;)I'm wondering if any of you guys have ever taken a good hard look at the osCommerce, Zen Cart or Ubuntu forums?http://www.zen-cart.com/forum http://forums.oscommerce.com http://www.ubuntuforums.org/ Yes. I know php is nasty. But that's not the point. Look at the accessibility and structure of the interface. All user levels are accommodated. All find their natural place.Nearly a quarter of a million members on Ubuntu. 120K on osCommerce. 2,347 and 824 currently active respectively at this very moment as we speakA working model of how to build a user base surely, if nothing else? Ian Chris Howe wrote:Ian, While I certainly enjoy the analogies, who are you ultimately suggesting create these lowest common denominator (LCD) documents? As has already been mentioned, once you pass that "aha" moment in OFBiz, it's difficult to understand why the engineering documentation didn't make sense the first time around. 3D vector calculus, as you put it, seems so elementary obvious at that point that it's difficult to convey it in simpler terms; even though you remember it not being obvious when you started. I don't think it's very time/quality productive for someone who's passed that "aha" moment to produce this documentation; at least not without the aid of an "uninitiated". If you'd like to be that test subject, I'm sure there are a mess of people, including myself, that would be willing to help explain things to you as you make your way through the concepts, documenting as you go. But the POV of the documentation cannot be from someone who's already gotten the bird off the ground, because they're not really sure which button they pressed to make it all seem second nature. --- Ian McNulty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------David, I don't get the proposition that there are 100 different pilot roles. There are many 1,000s of different destinations. Maybe more than a dozen different pilot roles (commercial, fighter, bomber, spotter, etc.). But but there IS a lowest common denominator. They all fly planes. They all start off on fixed wing, singleengine props. They all need to understand basic navigation, aerodynamics,flight-engineering etc. But it is very basic. The need to understand lift, drag, how to calculate take off velocities etc. But I doubt if they start of with 3D vector calculus or need to know what a Reynold's number is. So why can't the target be whatever denominators are common to all pilots? How to find the door handle and the start buttonwould be top of my list. If they can't find those then they ain't nevergonna fly. Ian David E. Jones wrote:On Jan 20, 2007, at 1:25 AM, Ian McNulty wrote:David, I can see where you're coming from on this. Thisproject is betterdocumented than anything else I've seen in thefield.You yourselfhave produced a truly awesome amount ofdocumentation. I don't knowwhere you find the time. All are extremely wellwritten, very clear,very well laid out. A model of their kind. (NoI'm not sucking up - Imean it :) So what could possibly be the problem. I found the Introduction Videos and Diagrams pageyou link to here acouple of days ago myself. It was whilst working through these videos thatthe light bulb went off.What you're talking us through is a diagram ofthe wiring harness ofa jumbo jet. Essential for the engineers who need to serviceit.Absolutely the last kind of map a pilot wants tofind on his lap.Know what I mean?Uh, yeah, that's because it is meant to cover theframework, not theapplications. The two are very different, changevery differently,need to be understood by different people indifferent ways, etc. Mycurrent estimate is that to produce somethingadequate for a "pilot",given that there are about 100 different "pilot"roles in OFBiz, wouldrequire many times the effort to produce that theframework videoswith their diagrams, reference materials,transcriptions, etc. Rightnow I don't have the $500k to get into that... andthe $40k alreadyspent on the documents which are now PDF-dumpedinto thedocs.ofbiz.org site was clearly inadequate,especially as it is mostlyreference materials (which is why you won't findhow-to stuff in thereference guides, they are references after all,just for referencepurposes). The Application Overview for Users isprobably more of whatyou're looking for, though that section onlyrepresents maybe 3-5% ofwhat is in OFBiz right now. Of course, that's assuming such documents couldeven be written in away that is close to generally useful. How do Iuse it? Well, thatdepends on what you want to do... andunfortunately across a fewdifferent industries that list grows into hundredsof thousands ofactivities... So, that's the big question with any document: whois the targetaudience? The more specific the answer, the betterthe document willaddress their needs. But who is the targetaudience for OFBiz? ... ?-David--==============================================================================================mcnultyMEDIA 60 Birkdale Gardens Durham DH1 2UL t: +44 (0)191 384 4736 e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] w: www.mcnultymedia.co.uk==============================================================================================This communication is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s) named above and is confidential. Any form of distribution, copying, discussion or use of this communication, its contents, or any information contained herein without prior consent is strictly prohibited. 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