Andrew,

I agree with absolutely every point you make here - with knobs on :)

I guess they must have had these kind of arguments in places like Boeing in the early days.

Ask an engineer to design documentation for pilots and the first thing they'll want to start with is diagrams of the wiring harness, fuel system and hydraulics. Why would a pilot not need to understand such fundamental and crucial things?

I guess there's no way engineers will ever understand that the only time pilots finds this kind of documentation on their laps on top of the flight plan is when they're in very serious trouble indeed.

I guess that's why they get pilots to train pilots. Not engineers. And vica versa.

Two entirely different breeds of people. And never the twain shall meet. But they do need to work together - from opposite ends of the hanger.

I don't think we need any kind of fork. We all want to work on the same plane. But if we want to keep the coffee in the cups I do think we could do with some kind of dividing line in the canteen.

Ian


Andrew Ballantine wrote:
We seem to be making heavy weather of this.

A road map is a list of recommended action in a suggested order of
implementation. It can have notes that say "if you are and experienced
programmer, go to section x".

What Ian and I are suggesting is a roadmap for the un-initiated starter who
may know very little about Linux or programming, but has heard so much about
OFBiz that they want to try this baby out (well more of a teenager really
;-) ).

I would also suggest that we have some simple documents which suggest things
to try after OFBiz is installed that show off its talents.

Just simple stuff like creating a product with variants, ordering it,
processing the order, making sure it's in stock, picking it, shipping it and
telling the customer what you have done.

Use of day-to-day language is important too. Using terms like entity, tuple
and other DBMS terms are too confusing for the beginner. Likewise
assumptions that the reader knows what an environmental variable is and how
to set on permanently, should be avoided.

It's always the little things that get forgotten that cause confusion and
frustration.

I would even go so far as to suggest that there should be a section that
instructs the reader on HOW to download the file, which of course the
experienced reader can skip past unless there is a label in red saying read
this because it is non-standard.

Hope this clarifies.

Kind regards,

Andrew Ballantine.

-----Original Message-----
From: Ian McNulty [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 18 January 2007 21:00
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: OFBiz/opentaps as a small business accounting package?



Andrew Sykes wrote:
As with everything OfBiz, progress is dictated by demand. With adoptees
coming from such varied backgrounds and with such disparate
requirements. It would be hard to create such a roadmap that would be
relevant to all.


Absolutely true. But imo current adoptees mostly seem to fit into a
similar mould. Rocket scientists with high-end clients and very
idiosyncratic niches to fulfil. I'm not knocking that. I count myself as
one of that breed. But there is a lowest common denominator which
everybody seems determined to ignore. Some maps you have to be a rocket
scientist to read. But road maps are accessible to everyone. I don't see
a problem in creating such a thing, providing we  start off with an
attitude which - as I think Leo Szilard once said - "Assumes infinite
ignorance and unlimited intelligence."

That's why I'm determined to play the ignoramus around here. Assuming I
do have the intelligence to crack the code if I wanted to, why should I?
There are plenty of others who are better suited than I. I just want to
climb in, turn the key and get out on the road. Why should the only way
forward be for me to have to learn how to reinvent the wheel?

Given that problem the obvious solution is to create free-standing
documents that allow people the entry point of their choice.


Absolutely true for all free-thinking souls who like to think outside
the box. But, unfortunately, this is a very small minority. There's a
body of psychological research that shows that most people can only cope
with 7 choices in one go. That's why, for a long time, telephone numbers
were limited to just 7 digits. Faced with more choices than that,  most
people just roll-over and give-up. Supermarkets apparently work on this
principle. Offer more than 7 choices and punters don't know what to do.
Stick a big sign in the middle saying this is the way to go and most
will follow that.

The key to success isn't where you enter, or how you progress, but
rather that you do it in a thorough manner.

That's crucial for any engineer. But exactly not what most everybody
else can deal with. Why else are they prepared to pay us so well? My
mother would take a dozen balls of wool and work thoroughly night after
night to produce the most beautiful sweaters. Now, the supermarket shelf
is as far as most are prepared to go. And only then, if they can see
less than 7 in one go :-\

 So take a part of the code
that is of interest to you (you'll need relevance to stay motivated) and
then work through artifact by artifact making sure you read all the
free-standing documents you can lay your hands on as you go of course!


That's absolutely crucial. You do need relevance to stay motivated. If I
have to spend 3 months studying textbooks before I can fill in my VAT
returns how relevant is that? Especially when I can install entry-level
Intuit, Sage or Microsoft to do it for me OOB in just a few clicks for
less than the cost of a decent restaurant meal for 2!

I hope that helps...


I think it does. Socratic dialogue... Arguing things through and
balancing the ratio of points for and against is the only way to
discover the rational way forward and what might be able to fly.

Hope that's OK with you too :)

Ian




- Andrew (Sykes)


On Thu, 2007-01-18 at 16:34 +0000, Andrew Ballantine wrote:

Chris Howe wrote:


There's a funny point in learning OFBiz.  You start
out looking at it as this huge monstrosity that's just
too much to figure out and you get frustrated with the
lack of documentation available (even given the sites
linked off of ofbiz.apache.org and the tens of
thousands of mailing list posts available and the
number of video tutorials available).  But you start
playing with it a bit, and you pass an "aha" moment.
You don't realize the moment that you pass it but when
you look back and think "how can I make the learning
curve easier for the next guy", you realize everything
was there, and it's difficult to figure out what you
can add to those websites that could make it any
clearer.

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