Hi David:
Thanks for your comments. As usually, they are well thought out and
invaluable in helping furthering the understanding of the OFBiz project.
IMHO, project releases are a really important concern for new users. By
new users, I mean new users of the many and varied applications that
come with the OFBiz distribution. Maybe we could call these users new
"end-users". I don't mean users intent on building new applications
and/or modifying existing project files (i.e. Java code, CSS, HTML,
Javascript, Groovy, XML etc.). New users may get to a point where they
feel compelled to modify project files...but I suggest we don't put the
cart before the horse.
Please see my comments below:
David E Jones wrote:
I wouldn't say release4.0 or release09.04 have "been proven either
through formal release management practices or through actual
experience in the field." In fact, 4.0 was a much more arbitrary
cutoff point and not planned or acted on as much as 09.04.
OK, point well taken. Maybe I should have said "...through time in
service..."? Regardless, the applications as they exist in the 4.x
release work. Maybe the framework is not as advanced as the current
trunk or 9.04 release, but the demo store works and the supporting
applications work.
Just out of curiosity, have there been any bugs reported after the 9.04
branch, that would make me believe that the Catalog Manager, Order
Manager and eCommerce component are not stable and reliable in the 4.x
release?
You mentioned issues in 09.04, could you be more specific?
Unfortunately I think many issues are related to the theme,
Yes - themes seem to be problematic. And, since the very first encounter
with OFBiz out-of-the-box is the presentation as rendered by the theme -
I think there is a big issue here. In fact, IMHO this is what we use to
call a "show stopper" and makes the release unstable. Doesn't matter how
good the underlying product is, first impressions always count. Again,
this is just my opinion.
Back to themes: not only are themes problematic, I would point out the
documentation concerning how to work around theme based issues with the
flatgrey theme was vague and contradictory (as was discussed here on
this mailing list.)
and pretty or not it really does cause problems and it's probably
better to use it with the old flatgrey theme. There could certainly be
other problems, but in general I'd say 09.04 is more solid and
certainly much more feature complete.
How about Jira #2602 - the very first thing you see when you start up
the demo store is broken (in my book and in my browser). Sorry, but this
does not bode well for the remainder of the demonstration and for a
successful outcome should one be a new user testing the waters.
As far as "ad advertised" goes, I wasn't aware there was anything
advertised either way... ;)
Exactly my point! Its all implied. And since we have nothing else to
work with, older is better in this case.
One nice thing about 09.04 is that the business processes are much
more complete. In other words you can run through a business process
and not find the big functional gaps that exist in 4.0. A LOT happened
in the 2 years between the two releases, and probably around 50
man-years of effort went into things.
Actually, the devil is in the details. I'm not "dissing" 50 man-years of
work, but how many years of work went into the code base prior to the
9.x release? And how many implementations are there of 4.x code vs.
trunk releases since the branch?
This really isn't a small difference. When doing gap analysis based on
a set of requirements I haven't seen any business looking for
anything, ever, where the feature set of 4.0 would hit even close to
the percentage of overlap that 09.04 does.
That is good to know. Sounds like OFBiz is moving in the right direction.
Whatever the case, depending on the circumstances I'd still recommend
going with the trunk. For reasons we've discussed before in many cases
the trunk is actually more bug-free than any release branch as long as
you stay updated with it, of course with the release branches you have
to stay updated with them too if you want bug fixes (ie that is the
"patching" process for them and it's BAD BAD BAD to not update when
using the release branches).
I guess this is where we differ. I'd say a new user - out to kick the
tires - is not interested in updating or reporting bugs. They just want
to get started with a minimum of frustration and a maximum of success.
That said, the basic idea behind the releases and what to choose still
holds pretty true, and the release branches are definitely more
"stable" (meaning they don't change, not meaning more bug-free, but it
does help some with that), see the "How Do I Decide What To Use"
section here:
http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBADMIN/Apache+OFBiz+Getting+Started
-David
On Sep 24, 2009, at 9:49 AM, Ruth Hoffman wrote:
Hi Jacques:
I understand and respect where both of you are coming from. But I
think you need to consider that for new users (and this is only for
new users), they should be guided towards using a stable, proven
release. The 4.x release is the only release that is proven and works
out-of-the-box as advertised.
Your reference to beginner documentation aside (and, BTW, this is
developer documentation not end-user documentation), I can't in good
conscience suggest to anyone to use code that hasn't been proven
either through formal release management practices or through actual
experience in the field.
Just my 2 cents.
Ruth
Jacques Le Roux wrote:
I totally agree with Ashish (not surprising) but Ruth is also right
to say that we have still some bugs in R9.04, but it's improving day
after day and have a lot more features and a better architecture.
For instance there is still issues with Minerva in R4. And IMO, the
main reason is you will not get much help (if any) from the
community with R4. We are almost all turned to the future, not the
past...
Jacques
From: "Ashish Vijaywargiya" <[email protected]>
-1 for starting with OFBiz 4.0 release.
Instead of this I will recommend to start with either Release
branch 9.04 or trunk and report any bug found.
The main reason of my recommendation is that the beginner
document(http://docs.ofbiz.org/x/UBE) and some other document best
support to Release Branch 9.04 & trunk.
PS: "4.x trunk release" - Ruth, If I am not wrong "trunk" word is
used for the repository on which current development is going on.
--
Regards
Ashish Vijaywargiya
HotWax Media Pvt. Ltd.
http://www.hotwaxmedia.com
Helping hand around the World ...
USA | Italy | India | New Zealand
Ruth Hoffman wrote:
Hello Olindo:
IMHO - and not to ruffle any feathers - there are a number of
minor but very visible bugs (mostly in the presentation layer) in
the 9.04 release that could easily discourage and frustrate a
first time user. I found this out the hard way while trying to use
the 9.04 release as a basis for screen shots in my 2 books (and
for the myofbiz.com website.)
My advice for what it is worth: if you are a beginner, start with
the 4.x trunk release (it's rock solid and proven) and then, when
you understand how OFBiz should work, move on to 9.04 if needed.
Again,
Just my 2 cents.
Ruth
Olindo Pindaro wrote:
What is the difference beetween this 2 branches?
TNX
