Great post Nick - and thanks for being one of those vendors who is giving back to the community - especially with this level of detail. We enjoyed working with you and are stoked to see that thru your hard work and patience with the community you were able to achieve the level of internal adoption that many people strive for, but are unsuccessful. The points you lay out here are great for everyone to hear - and I think really hit the nail on the head as far as the difficulty of less technical, and even less resourced companies face.
That being said, I believe that there are commercial entities in the OFBiz world with the right processes, enough firepower (read resources) and expertise to ensure success in your project. This may not have been the case when you first started, but I think that has changed. This does not mean that any one entity has to run the entire project - like say a JBoss or a MySQL - but there is really not much difference in paying for MySQL support services than paying the high tiered support offerings with OFBiz. You just have to choose the right group and find the right individuals to help you along - and my personal opinion is that they are out there. Sorry to digress - now, back to your original point, there are a ton of things that the community can improve upon that you mentioned below. Can you put these together up on the Wiki, much like we've discussed in other threads, so that we can begin to track our progress? I'd like to see the documentation angle continue to get worked thru (technical and end-user) - possibly moving some of the documentation that I know that people are creating internally - out to a place where everyone can appreciate it without having to pay additional money. We need to come together to make this happen - and it will only get there if all of the corporate entities out there begin to or continue to support the community by donating a ton of time into documentation, mailing list responses, enhanced applications. Thanks again Nick - this is great stuff. Cheers, Ruppert -- Tim Ruppert HotWax Media http://www.hotwaxmedia.com o:801.649.6594 f:801.649.6595 On Mar 2, 2010, at 7:08 AM, Nick Rosser wrote: > All, > > > > Just a note to let you know that we recently released an eCommerce site. > Check out www.purityproducts.com. > > > > Launched a couple of weeks ago, to very little fanfare, this is a complete > replacement of an existing site, with no upgrades to the UI or basic > eCommerce structure. A straight conversion to OFBiz as a platform change to > allow for future changes, enhancements and growth. > > > > This is on the back of a very successful ERP release last year for the same > customer, our first OFBiz implementation. Challenging, to say the least, but > very successful in terms of laying the same platform for the back-end > processes, with a specific focus on a very intense and customized CSR layer. > > > > > Of interest to some, particularly given recent posts about community-driven > OFBiz and various discussions about the lack of process and documentation I > thought I'd share our experience of using OFBiz during the last 2 years. > First a little background on Salmon LLC that I think is relevant: > > > > Our background: > > > > * we have released open-source framework software in the past > > * we have developed many custom J2EE solutions > > * we have adopted other ERP solutions prior to OFBiz (Compiere / > Adempiere - before bailing because it was not really open-source) > > * we have adopted other packaged solutions in other business areas > > * we're a technical company, with business savvy > > * we can figure stuff out > > > > OFBiz, the good: > > > > * nice architecture, we were generally impressed with the service > based approach > > * the services work. For us, OFBiz is a starting point, the services > are available and they work! > > * the community support is amazing; the commitment of everyone > monitoring this thread and providing responses is commendable > > > > OFBiz, the not so good: > > > > * UI ootb: not the best. BUT, we understand the objective (framework) > and we understand the ERP domain to realize that OFBiz is a starting point; > and a pretty good one > > * architecture: next level of concepts was harder to grasp, as you dig > more into the code the more confusing it can get; the lack of good coding > standards can make it very confusing as to what exactly is the best practice > (particularly when looking at "older" code) > > * the devil is in the details, and there are a lot of them; be > prepared to make mistakes, having to figure stuff out for yourself, lots of > trial and error > > * community support: when it gets a little tricky it's much more > difficult to explain the issue and get a good community response. Perfectly > understandable but this is where the risk comes into play . we spent > countless hours on some very tricky payment processing issues (credit, card, > returns, refunds) and inventory processing > > * what a pity that the documentation cannot encapsulate all the > knowledge from the user-group. Yes, I know we can search through email > postings. Yes, I know that the documentation is improving. But there are > still problems in this area, perhaps I can share one specific example: > > > > One specific example: > > > > * Product A is put with product B in order to offer product C > > * Product A and B may (or may not) have inventory associated > > * When assembled into C, this can also carry inventory > > * When the item is returned, it may be put back into inventory as > product C, OR may be disassembled into products A and B > > * Fairly straight forward and not uncommon, and I'm sure that OFBiz > can handle this but we couldn't find ANY document that would clearly explain > product configuration and it's impact on other areas of the ERP solution > > * I remember being amazed that a thorough product configuration guide > was not available that would explain all the product attributes and a high > level description of the impact throughout OFBiz. What's more important is > that if you guess wrong then you can cause all sorts of problems > > * BTW: since this was a while ago I did review the current > documentation, the only item I saw that described setting up a product was > the "Business Setup Guide (for users)", the content for Product Setup is > pasted below. The best looking resource is I understand that there may be > more documentation available that is more appropriate . BUT, if I'm new to > OFBiz and cannot find something decent after a few minutes then I'll move on > very quickly > > > > So, where are we now? Well, I think we can safely say that we are OFBiz > adopters, it took much sweat and tears to get to where we are now but I > consider my team to be well versed, near expert, with ERP and eCommerce > implementations using OFBiz. I'm very comfortable offering this service to > our clients, and very comfortable with our ability to deliver scalable ERP > and eCommerce solutions. > > > > HOWEVER, our first implementation was very stressful. And in hindsight, very > risky. Remember that ERP solutions are "bet your business" propositions . we > cannot make mistakes. If we do, we jeopardize our business and the business > of our clients. In our first implementation we are processing 5000 orders > per day. For the first 3-4 weeks of go-live the background jobs were taking > more than 24 hours to run (build orders from a recurring order list, process > orders for fulfillment, manage incoming inventory, process credit card > transactions, PLUS any new orders for that day). Saturdays and Sundays were > used to make-up the time while we figured out solutions! As you can imagine > we had a very stressful time working with our client, tuning our processes > and working with our client to keep OFBiz as the ERP solution. I'm happy to > report that everything is perfectly fine now, but this is not the way we > like to do business. > > > > I consider my team to be extremely committed, technically excellent and > business savvy. I wonder how small companies or small integrators adopt > OFBiz without these resources? > > > > Conclusion: > > > > * As I re-read my comments and gather my thoughts it basically boils > down to documentation > > * We did not have the luxury of being able to hire a certified "guru" > to help out (we did have David Jones spend a week with us initially and used > a couple of committers for specific tasks) but there is generally no > "corporate" option to ensure success > > * Best practices / coding techniques etc are exposed because of the > open-source nature of OFBiz; it's probably better written than other > proprietary software; this is not an essential issue > > * So everything hinges on community support. Lots of it is required > for early adopters and we see these postings every day. For folks that have > moved into more complex areas (like we were 12 months ago), the community > support is not enough-the issues are too complex > > * As an open-source project, without formal corporate backing, the key > is documentation, not just technical. And I suspect that we need more than > Oracle and SAP because of the community nature of the project > > > > Nick Rosser > > Salmon LLC > > > > > > > Product Setup > > > Congratulations, you are finally to the point where you can start setting up > products.... > > To create a Product follow a process similar to those described for other > things, like Categories. > > 1. Go to the main page of the Catalog Manager and click on the "Create > New Product" link. > 2. If you fill in an ID it will make sure that ID is valid, and if so > it will use that one. If you specify no ID it will generate one. > 3. Set an Internal Name that makes it easy for you to recognize the > product. This name will be shown in the admin tools, but not to the > customer. > 4. Note that if you are using the UPS or USPS or other online rate > estimation utilities then you must have values in the "Weight" and "Weight > Uom Id" fields. > 5. Submit the form to create the product. > > Add Content to the New Product > > 1. Click on the "Content" tab/button for the product you just created. > Here you can setup text and images for your product. > 2. You will see some forms at the top for administering managed content > (ie from the Content Manager) with the product. For more advanced product > related content needs use this, but for more common and simple needs, this > can be more difficult to administer and slower at run time. > 3. Near the bottom of the page is a section labeled "Override Simple > Fields". Here you will typically want to specify a Product Name, Product > Description, and Long Description. If you have images to associate with the > product, you can specify their locations here, or upload them. Note that > there are default locations for the images (can be quickly set by clicking > on the "[.jpg]" or "[.gif]" buttons). We recommend using these locations, > but of course you can put your images anywhere. These can be an absolute > URL, or will be relative to the current server address, or the content URL > prefix if one is specified in the url.properties file. > > Add Prices to the Product > > 1. Product pricing in OFBiz is very flexible. There are two main > aspects to it: Prices and Price Rules. This is independent of promotions, > which are applied after the price calculation is done. > 2. For basic operation you should have at least one type of price setup > for each product: the Default Price. This is the price that is used when no > rules apply. > 3. To add a Default Price go to the Prices tab for the Product, and use > the form at the bottom of the page. > > 1. The Product Price Type Id should be "Default Price", the Currency > Uom Id should be whatever currency the price is in, and the Product Store > Group Id can be left as Not Applicable, unless you are setting up multiple > groups of stores that have different pricing. > 2. The From Date can be now or in the future, if you want the price to > take effect in the future. The Thru Date is optional, but can be used to > specify that this particular price expires at a certain date and time. Note > that if there are multiple prices of the same type, etc that are active at > once, it will use the one with the most recent From Date. This is useful > when you want a temporary price to override the normal "Default" price of > the product. > > 4. If you are using price rules or may do so in the future you may also > want to enter information such as the List Price and the Average Cost which > are often used in the price calculations. > 5. Note that if a Minimum Price is set the price will never be less > than that. So, even if the Default Price is to 2.00 and the Minimum Price is > set to 3.00, then 3.00 will be used as the calculated price. The Maximum > Price setting works the same way as the ceiling for the price. > > Make sure to put each product in a browse category, and in the All Products > category so that it can be searched for, viewed, and purchased in your > catalog. > > Expert Recommendation: These are the basics, but there is a lot more > information about products that you can, or may need to, setup. We recommend > reviewing the more detailed documentation or engaging the services of an > experienced consulting to help you through this. > > Advanced Catalog Setup: Features, Promotions, Price Rules, Keyword > Thesaurus, Features for special functionality or parametric search, > Moderated (or unmoderated) Product Reviews, Configurable and Manufactured > Products, Virtual and Variant Products, Inventory/Facility/Location > settings, and so on > > See the end-user documentation space for details on how to set these things > up and what they mean. Also see this for more advanced options for Products, > Categories, and so on. > > > > >
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