Nicolas, I guess this goes back to discussions on approach even as basic as compiled versus interpreted languages, or at least the issue of typos in variable names.
What is it that you like about having these generated classes to use? You mentioned auto-completion in IDEs and compile time variable name and type checking. Are there other ways this makes your life easier, or is that the main point? -David On Mar 11, 2010, at 1:34 PM, Nicolas Malin wrote: > -1 > > BJ, Ruth, > > Saying that OFBiz should move in the same way that other projects is a bit > stupid, and show that you've not fully understand OFBiz and the entity engine. > It is now 7 years I'm working on OFBiz, and I have made the same error at the > beginning as others, I did'nt understood at the moment the beauty of the > entityengine. > Looking back at my hard start, I'm glad having done this error, and now more > than mastering the entity engine, and all its abilities in tems of > connections, abstractions, and more. > The only fault I found was on huge customers projects where there were big > business needs. > > At LibrenBerry and Nereide, we've then added generators to fill the gap, and > this remove nothing from the entity-engine capabilities, but add more > smoothness in its use. The combination form/screen/minilang is as strong as > before and more stronger. For big business needs, where java is needed, the > generated code is more reliable (who never has made on error on Strings ?). > for an example, you can take a look to neogia accounting code, to see how > entity-engine and code generation combination is valuable. > > From our side, it is sure that helping development by generation is not > revolutionizing OFBiz, and should not do it, noone told to replace > entity-engine with hibernate. > Generation is adding a bigger flexibility and a more reliable product. > > From my point of view, OFBiz is more than just an ERP. It is also a strong > base for any project, from the small ones to the big ones. Adding MDA tools > in its data model can only be a good thing. > > Cheers, > Nicolas > > Ruth Hoffman a écrit : >> +1 >> Thank you BJ. >> Ruth >> ---------------------------------------------------- >> Find me on the web at http://www.myofbiz.com or Google keyword "myofbiz" >> [email protected] >> >> BJ Freeman wrote: >>> Let me ask this, if all these other approaches are better why is there >>> not a application like ofbiz done in them, without using ofbiz at all? >>> >>> I keep getting the feeling that those that want major changes don't >>> really understand the design goals of ofbiz. >>> >>> ======================= >>> >>> BJ Freeman >>> http://bjfreeman.elance.com >>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation >>> <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=93> >>> Specialtymarket.com <http://www.specialtymarket.com/> >>> >>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist >>> >>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man >>> Linkedin >>> <http://www.linkedin.com/profile?viewProfile=&key=1237480&locale=en_US&trk=tab_pro> >>> >>> >>> >>> [email protected] sent the following on 3/11/2010 8:50 AM: >>> >>>> While reading the sentence "There are many people out there who don't >>>> understand the Entity Engine", I felt a problem implied in it: There are >>>> absolutely much more people "out there", and I'm sure the OFBIZ project >>>> want to attract them in. Why they keep on asking "Hibernate", "Spring", >>>> etc, though? Are they all wrong? >>>> >>>> In my opinion, the OFBIZ framework DID do a right thing - to provide >>>> developers an integrated framework. What I mean is in OFBIZ, the >>>> developer can define entity in one place and share the entity definition >>>> across different tiers, form persistence to presentation. This kind of >>>> integration saved developers a lot from typings and preserved >>>> consistency across different application tiers. But, this is not what >>>> Entity Engine itself can provide. All gains come from the integration. >>>> If we simply separate the OFBIZ entity engine into a stand alone ORM >>>> like tool, I bet its not very attractive and only people familiar with >>>> OFBIZ already will use it. >>>> On the other hand, if there are another framework such as Grails that >>>> can provide at least same level of cross tier integration ability, while >>>> leverage the sophisticated and WELL KNOWN technologies (such as >>>> Hibernate/JPA for ORM, Spring for service tier component composition, >>>> Spring MVC for view tier framework). Sounds a little bit attractive than >>>> "home made" every thing, isn't it? >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Miles. >>>> >>>> On Thu, 2010-03-11 at 10:23 -0500, Ruth Hoffman wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi David: >>>>> >>>>> Nothing! I think this is an amazing piece of work. IMO, there are many >>>>> people out there who don't understand the Entity Engine value >>>>> proposition. That is why they keep asking for "Hibernate" etc. >>>>> >>>>> Here's some things I'd consider as additions: >>>>> >>>>> * Maybe making a separate component/webapp to manage the Entity >>>>> Engine. Take it out of WebTools. >>>>> * Include in that webapp any security/role management specific to >>>>> the Entity Engine. >>>>> * Entity Engine performance tools (or more information on how to use >>>>> existing tools). >>>>> * Better backup tools (or more information on how to use existing >>>>> tools). >>>>> >>>>> More to come... >>>>> Ruth >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------- >>>>> Find me on the web at http://www.myofbiz.com or Google keyword "myofbiz" >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> >>>>> David E Jones wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> If you could change anything about the data tier in OFBiz (basically the >>>>>> Entity Engine), what would you change? >>>>>> >>>>>> All comments are welcome. If there is another tool you'd like to see >>>>>> used instead of the Entity Engine, please describe what you like about >>>>>> it (like "I want to have an Java class for each table in my database") >>>>>> instead of just mentioning the tool (like "let's use Hibernate!"). >>>>>> >>>>>> Why am I asking? This topic comes up every once in a while, and it's >>>>>> true that many suggestions never get enough support to actually happen >>>>>> (or on further research it is decided that the idea is not tenable), but >>>>>> brainstorming about them to get ideas in the open is still a great >>>>>> thing. The history of OFBiz is full of things like this where users and >>>>>> more casual contributors had ideas and saw possibilities that others, >>>>>> even more involved contributors, totally missed or never looked at that >>>>>> way. What I think would be fun, and ultimately useful too, is to keep >>>>>> this mostly to brainstorming and not do too much comparing of ideas. >>>>>> >>>>>> BTW, if you want to brainstorm about another tier (ie the Logic or UI >>>>>> tiers) please use the other threads on those. If you'd like to discuss >>>>>> things that aren't specific to a tier look for the "General" thread. >>>>>> >>>>>> -David >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> > > > -- > Nicolas MALIN > Consultant > Tél : 06.17.66.40.06 > Site projet : http://www.neogia.org/ > ------- > Société LibrenBerry > Tél : 02.48.02.56.12 > Site : http://www.librenberry.net/ >
