Hi Rodrigo:
I'm really not understanding your arguments. Could you elaborate?
Rodrigo Lima wrote:
David,
SDO is intended to give applications an easy-to-use, uniform programming
model for accessing and updating data, regardless of the underlying source
or format of the data.
Isn't that what the Entity Engine does? What am I missing here?
The Service Data Objects (SDO) API allows client applications to read and
update the data through a typed or untyped interface.
However, unlike a conventional Web service, at the core of each data service
is an XML data type.
I don't understand, Web services are all about XML data types.
The network is accessed again only when the client wants to apply the data
changes to the source.
What does SDO have to do with network access? Isn't this just keeping
stuff in memory (caching ) vs. writing to persistent storage?
Disconnected data access contributes to a scalable, efficient computing
environment because back-end system resources are never tied up for very
long.
In real life, I found the opposite to be true. Enterprises spend more
time and effort synchronizing their back-end data resources then they do
using them. Performance, reliability and usability always suffer. This
is the age-old argument of centralized vs decentralized computing. Maybe
I don't understand what you are trying to say here?
I suggest also apply the concept of SDO with XQuery and XPath
2010/3/12 David E Jones <[email protected]>
The SDO stuff (that was originally WDO) seems to be more related to the
service engine in OFBiz than to the entity engine. I might be
misunderstanding that though...
Whatever the case, what is it that you like about SDO, or how does it make
your life easier?
-David
On Mar 11, 2010, at 6:43 PM, Rodrigo Lima wrote:
Hi David,
I believe it is worth following in a path parallel to the Entity Engine,
which already has its
value and trust already established.
A model that looks interesting data model would be to create a layer as
the
SDO (Service Data Objects
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Service_Data_Objects)
to
services layer, which could easily be used by various technologies UI
Tier.
A great detail is the question of objects typed and untyped.
Some might say that this issue is easily solved with Web Services,
however,
in practice, it is not so simple for many platforms.
Regards,
Rodrigo
2010/3/11 Nicolas Malin <[email protected]>
-1
BJ, Ruth,
Saying that OFBiz should move in the same way that other projects is a
bit
stupid, and show that you've not fully understand OFBiz and the entity
engine.
It is now 7 years I'm working on OFBiz, and I have made the same error
at
the beginning as others, I did'nt understood at the moment the beauty of
the
entityengine.
Looking back at my hard start, I'm glad having done this error, and now
more than mastering the entity engine, and all its abilities in tems of
connections, abstractions, and more.
The only fault I found was on huge customers projects where there were
big
business needs.
At LibrenBerry and Nereide, we've then added generators to fill the gap,
and this remove nothing from the entity-engine capabilities, but add
more
smoothness in its use. The combination form/screen/minilang is as strong
as
before and more stronger. For big business needs, where java is needed,
the
generated code is more reliable (who never has made on error on Strings
?).
for an example, you can take a look to neogia accounting code, to see
how
entity-engine and code generation combination is valuable.
From our side, it is sure that helping development by generation is not
revolutionizing OFBiz, and should not do it, noone told to replace
entity-engine with hibernate.
Generation is adding a bigger flexibility and a more reliable product.
From my point of view, OFBiz is more than just an ERP. It is also a
strong
base for any project, from the small ones to the big ones. Adding MDA
tools
in its data model can only be a good thing.
Cheers,
Nicolas
Ruth Hoffman a écrit :
+1
Thank you BJ.
Ruth
----------------------------------------------------
Find me on the web at http://www.myofbiz.com or Google keyword
"myofbiz"
[email protected]
BJ Freeman wrote:
Let me ask this, if all these other approaches are better why is there
not a application like ofbiz done in them, without using ofbiz at all?
I keep getting the feeling that those that want major changes don't
really understand the design goals of ofbiz.
=======================
BJ Freeman
http://bjfreeman.elance.com
Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation <
http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=93>
Specialtymarket.com <http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
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http://www.linkedin.com/profile?viewProfile=&key=1237480&locale=en_US&trk=tab_pro
[email protected] sent the following on 3/11/2010 8:50 AM:
While reading the sentence "There are many people out there who don't
understand the Entity Engine", I felt a problem implied in it: There
are
absolutely much more people "out there", and I'm sure the OFBIZ
project
want to attract them in. Why they keep on asking "Hibernate",
"Spring",
etc, though? Are they all wrong?
In my opinion, the OFBIZ framework DID do a right thing - to provide
developers an integrated framework. What I mean is in OFBIZ, the
developer can define entity in one place and share the entity
definition
across different tiers, form persistence to presentation. This kind
of
integration saved developers a lot from typings and preserved
consistency across different application tiers. But, this is not what
Entity Engine itself can provide. All gains come from the
integration.
If we simply separate the OFBIZ entity engine into a stand alone ORM
like tool, I bet its not very attractive and only people familiar
with
OFBIZ already will use it.
On the other hand, if there are another framework such as Grails that
can provide at least same level of cross tier integration ability,
while
leverage the sophisticated and WELL KNOWN technologies (such as
Hibernate/JPA for ORM, Spring for service tier component composition,
Spring MVC for view tier framework). Sounds a little bit attractive
than
"home made" every thing, isn't it?
Regards,
Miles.
On Thu, 2010-03-11 at 10:23 -0500, Ruth Hoffman wrote:
Hi David:
Nothing! I think this is an amazing piece of work. IMO, there are
many
people out there who don't understand the Entity Engine value
proposition.
That is why they keep asking for "Hibernate" etc.
Here's some things I'd consider as additions:
* Maybe making a separate component/webapp to manage the Entity
Engine. Take it out of WebTools.
* Include in that webapp any security/role management specific to
the Entity Engine.
* Entity Engine performance tools (or more information on how to
use
existing tools).
* Better backup tools (or more information on how to use existing
tools).
More to come...
Ruth
----------------------------------------------------
Find me on the web at http://www.myofbiz.com or Google keyword
"myofbiz"
[email protected]
David E Jones wrote:
If you could change anything about the data tier in OFBiz
(basically
the Entity Engine), what would you change?
All comments are welcome. If there is another tool you'd like to
see
used instead of the Entity Engine, please describe what you like
about it
(like "I want to have an Java class for each table in my database")
instead
of just mentioning the tool (like "let's use Hibernate!").
Why am I asking? This topic comes up every once in a while, and
it's
true that many suggestions never get enough support to actually
happen (or
on further research it is decided that the idea is not tenable),
but
brainstorming about them to get ideas in the open is still a great
thing.
The history of OFBiz is full of things like this where users and
more casual
contributors had ideas and saw possibilities that others, even more
involved
contributors, totally missed or never looked at that way. What I
think would
be fun, and ultimately useful too, is to keep this mostly to
brainstorming
and not do too much comparing of ideas.
BTW, if you want to brainstorm about another tier (ie the Logic or
UI
tiers) please use the other threads on those. If you'd like to
discuss
things that aren't specific to a tier look for the "General"
thread.
-David
--
Nicolas MALIN
Consultant
Tél : 06.17.66.40.06
Site projet : http://www.neogia.org/
-------
Société LibrenBerry
Tél : 02.48.02.56.12
Site : http://www.librenberry.net/
