Hi David,
Yes, I remember very well this discussion ;) .
From my POV, compilation is good but has some limitations. Interpreting
is also good, and has other limitations. So mixing both, and adding some
good practices is then a very nice way to go.
In neogia, we are using generated java files from entitymodel for
developping java code.
One Entity is then transformed in two classes : EntityBase.java and
EntityService.java. Generated files contains an attributes list, some
getter/setter and functions to get associations. It's a heritage of
GenericValue so we can use as GV or Object oriented method. This make
easier big java service development with ide auto-completion,
simplification to read complexe object as DynamicView and possibility to
switch in oriented object code and relational code (to select to best
approch as appropriate)
We also added other functions as edit / remove / beforeStore ... but
they will pass to deprecated because intrepreted language is really
better for that and I prefer use the auto-entity service and seca .
I'm sure we can improve the generators for a better integration with the
OFBiz concept ;) if the OFBiz community is interested.
Nicolas
David E Jones a écrit :
Nicolas,
I guess this goes back to discussions on approach even as basic as compiled
versus interpreted languages, or at least the issue of typos in variable names.
What is it that you like about having these generated classes to use? You
mentioned auto-completion in IDEs and compile time variable name and type
checking. Are there other ways this makes your life easier, or is that the main
point?
-David
On Mar 11, 2010, at 1:34 PM, Nicolas Malin wrote:
-1
BJ, Ruth,
Saying that OFBiz should move in the same way that other projects is a bit
stupid, and show that you've not fully understand OFBiz and the entity engine.
It is now 7 years I'm working on OFBiz, and I have made the same error at the
beginning as others, I did'nt understood at the moment the beauty of the
entityengine.
Looking back at my hard start, I'm glad having done this error, and now more
than mastering the entity engine, and all its abilities in tems of connections,
abstractions, and more.
The only fault I found was on huge customers projects where there were big
business needs.
At LibrenBerry and Nereide, we've then added generators to fill the gap, and
this remove nothing from the entity-engine capabilities, but add more
smoothness in its use. The combination form/screen/minilang is as strong as
before and more stronger. For big business needs, where java is needed, the
generated code is more reliable (who never has made on error on Strings ?). for
an example, you can take a look to neogia accounting code, to see how
entity-engine and code generation combination is valuable.
From our side, it is sure that helping development by generation is not
revolutionizing OFBiz, and should not do it, noone told to replace
entity-engine with hibernate.
Generation is adding a bigger flexibility and a more reliable product.
From my point of view, OFBiz is more than just an ERP. It is also a strong base
for any project, from the small ones to the big ones. Adding MDA tools in its
data model can only be a good thing.
Cheers,
Nicolas
Ruth Hoffman a écrit :
+1
Thank you BJ.
Ruth
----------------------------------------------------
Find me on the web at http://www.myofbiz.com or Google keyword "myofbiz"
[email protected]
BJ Freeman wrote:
Let me ask this, if all these other approaches are better why is there
not a application like ofbiz done in them, without using ofbiz at all?
I keep getting the feeling that those that want major changes don't
really understand the design goals of ofbiz.
=======================
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http://bjfreeman.elance.com
Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation
<http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=93>
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Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
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[email protected] sent the following on 3/11/2010 8:50 AM:
While reading the sentence "There are many people out there who don't
understand the Entity Engine", I felt a problem implied in it: There are
absolutely much more people "out there", and I'm sure the OFBIZ project
want to attract them in. Why they keep on asking "Hibernate", "Spring",
etc, though? Are they all wrong?
In my opinion, the OFBIZ framework DID do a right thing - to provide
developers an integrated framework. What I mean is in OFBIZ, the
developer can define entity in one place and share the entity definition
across different tiers, form persistence to presentation. This kind of
integration saved developers a lot from typings and preserved
consistency across different application tiers. But, this is not what
Entity Engine itself can provide. All gains come from the integration.
If we simply separate the OFBIZ entity engine into a stand alone ORM
like tool, I bet its not very attractive and only people familiar with
OFBIZ already will use it.
On the other hand, if there are another framework such as Grails that
can provide at least same level of cross tier integration ability, while
leverage the sophisticated and WELL KNOWN technologies (such as
Hibernate/JPA for ORM, Spring for service tier component composition,
Spring MVC for view tier framework). Sounds a little bit attractive than
"home made" every thing, isn't it?
Regards,
Miles.
On Thu, 2010-03-11 at 10:23 -0500, Ruth Hoffman wrote:
Hi David:
Nothing! I think this is an amazing piece of work. IMO, there are many people out there
who don't understand the Entity Engine value proposition. That is why they keep asking
for "Hibernate" etc.
Here's some things I'd consider as additions:
* Maybe making a separate component/webapp to manage the Entity
Engine. Take it out of WebTools.
* Include in that webapp any security/role management specific to
the Entity Engine.
* Entity Engine performance tools (or more information on how to use
existing tools).
* Better backup tools (or more information on how to use existing
tools).
More to come...
Ruth
----------------------------------------------------
Find me on the web at http://www.myofbiz.com or Google keyword "myofbiz"
[email protected]
David E Jones wrote:
If you could change anything about the data tier in OFBiz (basically the Entity
Engine), what would you change?
All comments are welcome. If there is another tool you'd like to see used instead of the Entity
Engine, please describe what you like about it (like "I want to have an Java class for each
table in my database") instead of just mentioning the tool (like "let's use
Hibernate!").
Why am I asking? This topic comes up every once in a while, and it's true that
many suggestions never get enough support to actually happen (or on further
research it is decided that the idea is not tenable), but brainstorming about
them to get ideas in the open is still a great thing. The history of OFBiz is
full of things like this where users and more casual contributors had ideas and
saw possibilities that others, even more involved contributors, totally missed
or never looked at that way. What I think would be fun, and ultimately useful
too, is to keep this mostly to brainstorming and not do too much comparing of
ideas.
BTW, if you want to brainstorm about another tier (ie the Logic or UI tiers) please use
the other threads on those. If you'd like to discuss things that aren't specific to a
tier look for the "General" thread.
-David
--
Nicolas MALIN
Consultant
Tél : 06.17.66.40.06
Site projet : http://www.neogia.org/
-------
Société LibrenBerry
Tél : 02.48.02.56.12
Site : http://www.librenberry.net/
--
Nicolas MALIN
Consultant
Tél : 06.17.66.40.06
Site projet : http://www.neogia.org/
-------
Société LibrenBerry
Tél : 02.48.02.56.12
Site : http://www.librenberry.net/
