there must be an mis understanding. I don't think ofbiz should change just so others people can have it easier, at the expense of the ofbiz design.
btw I have been using ofbiz about as long as you. I started with java OO and found that I was touching to many points in code. Ofbiz design provided a lot less touch points to accomplish the same thing. thus has a faster to market design time and less maintainence, IMHO. ====================== BJ Freeman http://bjfreeman.elance.com Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=93> Specialtymarket.com <http://www.specialtymarket.com/> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man Linkedin <http://www.linkedin.com/profile?viewProfile=&key=1237480&locale=en_US&trk=tab_pro> Nicolas Malin sent the following on 3/11/2010 12:34 PM: > -1 > > BJ, Ruth, > > Saying that OFBiz should move in the same way that other projects is a > bit stupid, and show that you've not fully understand OFBiz and the > entity engine. > It is now 7 years I'm working on OFBiz, and I have made the same error > at the beginning as others, I did'nt understood at the moment the beauty > of the entityengine. > Looking back at my hard start, I'm glad having done this error, and now > more than mastering the entity engine, and all its abilities in tems of > connections, abstractions, and more. > The only fault I found was on huge customers projects where there were > big business needs. > > At LibrenBerry and Nereide, we've then added generators to fill the gap, > and this remove nothing from the entity-engine capabilities, but add > more smoothness in its use. The combination form/screen/minilang is as > strong as before and more stronger. For big business needs, where java > is needed, the generated code is more reliable (who never has made on > error on Strings ?). for an example, you can take a look to neogia > accounting code, to see how entity-engine and code generation > combination is valuable. > > From our side, it is sure that helping development by generation is not > revolutionizing OFBiz, and should not do it, noone told to replace > entity-engine with hibernate. > Generation is adding a bigger flexibility and a more reliable product. > > From my point of view, OFBiz is more than just an ERP. It is also a > strong base for any project, from the small ones to the big ones. Adding > MDA tools in its data model can only be a good thing. > > Cheers, > Nicolas > > Ruth Hoffman a écrit : >> +1 >> Thank you BJ. >> Ruth >> ---------------------------------------------------- >> Find me on the web at http://www.myofbiz.com or Google keyword "myofbiz" >> [email protected] >> >> BJ Freeman wrote: >>> Let me ask this, if all these other approaches are better why is there >>> not a application like ofbiz done in them, without using ofbiz at all? >>> >>> I keep getting the feeling that those that want major changes don't >>> really understand the design goals of ofbiz. >>> >>> ======================= >>> >>> BJ Freeman >>> http://bjfreeman.elance.com >>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation >>> <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=93> >>> Specialtymarket.com <http://www.specialtymarket.com/> >>> >>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist >>> >>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man >>> Linkedin >>> <http://www.linkedin.com/profile?viewProfile=&key=1237480&locale=en_US&trk=tab_pro> >>> >>> >>> >>> [email protected] sent the following on 3/11/2010 8:50 AM: >>> >>>> While reading the sentence "There are many people out there who don't >>>> understand the Entity Engine", I felt a problem implied in it: There >>>> are >>>> absolutely much more people "out there", and I'm sure the OFBIZ project >>>> want to attract them in. Why they keep on asking "Hibernate", "Spring", >>>> etc, though? Are they all wrong? >>>> >>>> In my opinion, the OFBIZ framework DID do a right thing - to provide >>>> developers an integrated framework. What I mean is in OFBIZ, the >>>> developer can define entity in one place and share the entity >>>> definition >>>> across different tiers, form persistence to presentation. This kind of >>>> integration saved developers a lot from typings and preserved >>>> consistency across different application tiers. But, this is not what >>>> Entity Engine itself can provide. All gains come from the integration. >>>> If we simply separate the OFBIZ entity engine into a stand alone ORM >>>> like tool, I bet its not very attractive and only people familiar with >>>> OFBIZ already will use it. >>>> On the other hand, if there are another framework such as Grails that >>>> can provide at least same level of cross tier integration ability, >>>> while >>>> leverage the sophisticated and WELL KNOWN technologies (such as >>>> Hibernate/JPA for ORM, Spring for service tier component composition, >>>> Spring MVC for view tier framework). Sounds a little bit attractive >>>> than >>>> "home made" every thing, isn't it? >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Miles. >>>> >>>> On Thu, 2010-03-11 at 10:23 -0500, Ruth Hoffman wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi David: >>>>> >>>>> Nothing! I think this is an amazing piece of work. IMO, there are >>>>> many people out there who don't understand the Entity Engine value >>>>> proposition. That is why they keep asking for "Hibernate" etc. >>>>> >>>>> Here's some things I'd consider as additions: >>>>> >>>>> * Maybe making a separate component/webapp to manage the Entity >>>>> Engine. Take it out of WebTools. >>>>> * Include in that webapp any security/role management specific to >>>>> the Entity Engine. >>>>> * Entity Engine performance tools (or more information on how >>>>> to use >>>>> existing tools). >>>>> * Better backup tools (or more information on how to use existing >>>>> tools). >>>>> >>>>> More to come... >>>>> Ruth >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------- >>>>> Find me on the web at http://www.myofbiz.com or Google keyword >>>>> "myofbiz" >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> >>>>> David E Jones wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> If you could change anything about the data tier in OFBiz >>>>>> (basically the Entity Engine), what would you change? >>>>>> >>>>>> All comments are welcome. If there is another tool you'd like to >>>>>> see used instead of the Entity Engine, please describe what you >>>>>> like about it (like "I want to have an Java class for each table >>>>>> in my database") instead of just mentioning the tool (like "let's >>>>>> use Hibernate!"). >>>>>> >>>>>> Why am I asking? This topic comes up every once in a while, and >>>>>> it's true that many suggestions never get enough support to >>>>>> actually happen (or on further research it is decided that the >>>>>> idea is not tenable), but brainstorming about them to get ideas in >>>>>> the open is still a great thing. The history of OFBiz is full of >>>>>> things like this where users and more casual contributors had >>>>>> ideas and saw possibilities that others, even more involved >>>>>> contributors, totally missed or never looked at that way. What I >>>>>> think would be fun, and ultimately useful too, is to keep this >>>>>> mostly to brainstorming and not do too much comparing of ideas. >>>>>> >>>>>> BTW, if you want to brainstorm about another tier (ie the Logic or >>>>>> UI tiers) please use the other threads on those. If you'd like to >>>>>> discuss things that aren't specific to a tier look for the >>>>>> "General" thread. >>>>>> >>>>>> -David >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> > >
